$46 for the first weekend of the year and only 13 trails is an outrage! In a week and a half i'm going to Jackson Hole and paying $41 for over 2000 more acres of terrain and better conditions. I realize comparing Jackson Hole to Snowshoe is not fair given location and snowmaking cost, however snowshoes ticket price is at least $16 more than any local resort that is opening this weekend. Seven Springs is the most expensive at $30 for basically the same conditions and amount of open terrain. Also when you get to snowshoe they find more ways to take your money than any other resort(food, lodging, and stupid shops). The only arguement for going there this weekend is for the terrain park and high-speed quad. The terrain park is only going to be a bunch of boxes and rails, so your paying more to ruin the base of your board or skis and possibily break a collarbone. I know i'm being negative, but i'm sick of being ripped off by snowshoe. I can remember in previous years them giving very good deals at the begining and end of the season, I can only hope Joe Stevens will see this thread and make something happen for me!! Otherwise you'll be seeing me at Canaan or 7 springs.

Have fun on the bunny trail at Canaan if you go this weekend (or so I hear from some back channel gossip, but I haven't actually called them yet myself.)

Snowshoe still has early season deals, although if you can escape midweek, that's when you'll find the best deals.

Through December 11, you can get free lift tickets if you stay two or more nights, and lodging is discounted up to 35%. Some details on specials are at:

http://www.snowshoemtn.com/earlyvalueseason.html

Snowshoe usually bundles its best deals with lodging. That makes sense, since most people stay overnight at Snowshoe, but if you're looking for a day trip area it can be harder to find a lift ticket special. That's good advice anywhere in the Mid-Atlantic -- weekends can be crowded and always cost more.

If you can make it to Snowshoe on Friday, December 12, you can ski for $2 if you swing by Ski Chalet and purchase one of their demo day vouchers. More info on that is at:

http://www.skichalet.com/

I think Snowshoe is offering lodging specials for the Demo Day weekend, as well.

[This message has been edited by Scott (edited 12-04-2003).]

Free lift tickets and 35% off lodging thru 12/11. You got to know how to play the game at SS. The condos allow you take your own food and drink. Mountain Lodge, Mountain Crest, etc. still reasonably priced. Early season discounts on season tickets. Who said you have to shop and dine? Midweek always the best.

What's the big deal about Snowshoe? The place (other than the CUP run area) has only about 550' to 600' vertical, which is no more that the back side of Ski Liberty! Ball Hooter has one short drop and then it's a flat run-out to the lifts where you're guaranteed to have a long wait! When Diamond Jim and Paradice are open, Massanutten is a much better and closer choice, almost never much of a lift line and around 800 vertical (I measured the vertical with an altimeter and got a reading of over 800).

Steve:

Your numbers are incorrect: the Basin's vertical is 800 feet. Silver Creek's is less--about 650 feet.

Snowshoe does not cater to day trippers. It's a destination mountain and all the good deals go to destination visitors who spend the night there. Seven Springs, by comparison, does a huge day tripper business with the Pittsburgh crowd. Those people spend a lot of money in the lodge and that compensates for the relatively cheap lift tickets.

[This message has been edited by johnfmh (edited 12-04-2003).]

Um, if Diamond Jim and Paradice are open then both Cupp AND Shay are open and it is TOTALLY worth the trip and $$$. What about Grabhammer, Knott Bumper, and the fact that you can create a completely new and varied run every time down the Basin side all day long. Besides, you're paying a bit extra for the joy of driving through the wonderful WV mountains to get there. You just can't get that in PA or VA.

Besides, you should have gotten over 1000' of vertical with Paradice and Diamond Jim according to their website.

sorry JR but the basin side of snowshoe is nothing to get excited about, imo. my only trip out there was for early season three years ago. only the basin side was open, and i couldnt believe we had spent five hours of driving for that small of a hill. it made whitetail look like alta. i cant see any reason to go to snowshoe at all, except maybe the longer season. after five hours my ruined tailbone is in agony, why not suffer for a few more hours and hit the terrain in vermont?

It's funny how snowshoe basin is the comparison to other whole mountains. There will be at least 14 trails open this weekend including the Northern tract area. Yes its all green stuff, basin is short, Northern tract is a little longer. But at least you have some decent lifts. The snowmaking and grooming at night almost guarantee quality runs in the morning. I bet the western territory is open in a week.

I've measured both Massanutten (Diamond Jim) and the Snowshoe Basin with a highly accurate altimeter. The basin side of Snowshoe is NO MORE than 600 vertical (if that)! And worse yet, little of that vertical is usable because most of it is taken up by the fairly long flat section that leads down to the lifts. Diamond Jim and Paradice have fully usable, continuous vertical; that is, none of it is wasted by a long run out. Plus, the vertical of Diamond Jim and Paradice measure in excess of 800 feet! Granted, the Basin side of Snowshoe is "cute'" and scenic amongst the red spruces but there's no challenge! If you're going to make such a hellish drive, why not head for Hunter, NY or New England?

Hey, I'm not gonna argue and say that the 13 or so trails that they have open before the Western Territory opens is worth a 5 hour drive over just going to a local resort but come on, to say that Massannuten is a much better choice AND closer when they're both in mid-season form is just insane. Maybe if Mass was 100% open it'd be better than the 13 trails at Basin. but Snowshoe will probably be 100% open by the time either of Mass's blacks are even open and Cupp is open till April. And if you've been on the Basin when its 100% open its really fun. Like I said, you can pick and choose your route and basically do a different combo down the hill all day. If there's enough fresh snow, like the last week of last season, you can basically ski every square inch of that side of the mountain as long as you can make it back to a lift. Try that in April in Virginia or at Whitetail.

I wouldn't blame someone for being dissapointed if they went this weekend all the way from DC but you gotta think, A-Basin was open awhile back with one trail. I ain't goin to Colorado for 1 trail at A-Basin and then complain about it saying its a load of crap cause that place is incredible when its prime.

All this to say, yeah, 46 bucks is too much for 13 trails but the Shoe is worth it to me when its up and goin full strength.

See fellas this is why we need mount porte crayon(almost heaven) developed!!! Snowshoe is cute! & the basin Is 700' vert but it ski's bigger with the variety of terrain.I like the dips & turns. Whitetail is straight & boring.A great workout though! I am staying at sugar mtn 75 yards from the slopes this wkend for only
$35 a nite!! $35 lift ticket & free demos fireworks, bands & fresh snow!BUT reg season sees their lift price at $53 !! I cant believe it.

AND THE RESULTS ARE IN...kinda

Ok, so i went to http://terraserver.microsoft.net/image.aspx?t=2&s=12&x=732&y=5316&z=17&w=1
in another attempt to not study (willy wonka isn't on this year for my math final so what else is there to do) and here is what i came up with.

Massssannnutttennnn or however you spell it.

peak 2540 (top of paradice)
base1 1900 = bottom of paradice or the lift to paradice
base2 1720 = bottom of everything.

640 ft for 2 black diamonds or 820 ft if you go top to bottom (black to green).

Posted vertical......1100 ft. Hmmm

Snowshoe
I found this
Snow
peak 4760 top of skidder lift
base 4060 bottom of Ballhooter lift
BASIN VERT = 700 ft. Good call andy
Posted Basin Vert 800ft. Maybe if you go from top of Widowmaker to bottom of Ballhooter you can pick up the extra 100ft but i doubt it. Again, hmm.

cupp peak 4700
cupp base 3260
Cupp Vert = 1440
Posted Cupp Vert = 1500' Not bad. Especially with my estimations.

Silver Creek looked about right at 600 to 650 ft.

I didn't do Timberline, their slopes aren't shown on the topo map. I could do it but i have to study now...really.

JR, I believe that the top of the Paradice/Diamond Jim (DJ) lift is a bit over 2,700 feet above sea level; which, if true, would make the vertical of those slopes around 800. I'll recheck the vertical next time I'm down there. Also, I believe that USSA measured the vertical of DJ in preparation for GS races a few years ago and arrived at approx. 800 ft. As far as the 1,100 figure goes; that was arrived at by measuring from the top of DJ all the way down past the lodge to the bottom of the #1 lift (which was converted into a tubing park).

It doesn't matter how good "The Shoe" is, the lines are so bad there that the drive simply isn't worth it. And I don't care what anyone might say about the Basin side or Silver Creek, there's no real challenge or vertical on either hill. Cup and Shays Rev. are great when the lines aren't too bad. By the way, doesn't anyone remember when The Shoe had the Hawthorne lift and slope? It was another 1,500 vertical lift on the Cup side of the mountain; I skied it a few times before the lift was taken out. I think that there simply wasn't enough snow making capacity to support Hawthorne at that time. I wonder why Intrawest doesn't put a Hawthorne lift back in. 2 high speed 1,500 vertical lifts at The Shoe! Now were talking!!!

Hey, I'm just goin by the topo map. Seems like somethings off though since i doubt they'd try to pull a 300' vertical fast one on us.

Who was the economic genius that decided to put 2 lifts and 2 slopes on the Western Territory side of the mountain. Where was the Hawthorne slope and lift? That topo map also has arial photos and shows a clearing or trail across the street from Widowmaker lift. Is that where it was?

One last thing. I don't know anything about the lift lines on weekends. I wouldn't dare go there on a weekend. Are you NUTS?!

JR, If I recall correctly, the Hawthorne lift was uphill (along the road) from the Cup Run lift and situated approximately across the road from where the Widowmaker lift is located today. Topo sheets are usually pretty accurate, so the figures that you obtained are, more than likely, accurate, athough I question the elevations for Massanutten. Many ski areas do fudge (a bit) on the verticals that they list. However, I agree that Massanutten probably wouldn't be fudging a full 300 ft of vertical.

here is a terraserver link that should show the top of the widowmaker lift at snowshoe, along with what certainly looks like a run cut on the slope just west and down from the top.

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=12&x=734&y=5313&z=17&w=1

Hey guys, look at buying a Season Pass at Snowshoe in May when you can purchase it for $328 and laugh at everyone paying full price during the season. By offering this they take care of their hard core skiers.