Just curious.

Looks like Whitetail on Sunday. They're calling for snow so I'm banking on that holding the crowds down a little. If this weather keeps up-- and it's supposed to-- I'll do Roundtop next weekend and some other guys on this site are supposed to be at T-line on the 7th and 8th so probably a weekend trip to CV. Though I'm tossing around a return to Denton. Two weeks is a bit far to plan in the Mid Atlantic though!

Try not to make to much fun of me tumbling down the moguls on Bold Decision! (if there are any)

[This message has been edited by Roger Z (edited 01-22-2004).]

The following weekend, though, I'll be back in Garrett County and, depending upon conditions, either skinny skiing at Harrington or in CV or else at Wisp, Canaan or TL (if they can get more of their slopes opened up...)

Enjoy WT - and please be careful - that place is full of out of control types on the weekend.....

SO I'd stay away if I were you and go someplace else ... :-)

Are the bus trips the norm for Roundtop on Saturdays? What time do they generally arrive? Leave? I may have to have a few less beers tonight to beat the crowds. Then again...

I've experienced a bit of the bus trip madness @ Roundtop in the past. The parking lots and lodge area were a zoo, but the Ramrod/Gunbarrel lift wasn't too bad. I may have lucked out the few times I went.

I'm not sure where the crowd went but on the slopes I didn't really notice it. Perhaps this was partially because the morning was a lesson and we just ducked in ahead of most folks as needed...

By we skied the rest of the day and I didn't really think it was too bad except in the lunch area which was packed.

It was brutally cold that day; perhaps everyone skied a bit and then went inside for some hot chocy...

??

Spent most of the time on Ramrod as they were just blowing snow on GB... not too crowded, a bit icy down the middle of RR though.

Recommend sharp edges!

Bier gut!!!

If anyone is seriously up for some type lunchtime/apres-ski tailgater let's do it! If there's enough interest maybe we should do something potluck-ish-- I'll bring a propane stove I use for camping and some beer and maybe some polish sausages and chips. A few other contributors and we could have a real Superbowl warm-up fest in the parking lot!

If I do make it, I'll look for red pom-pom hats and yard sales on Bold Decision.

[This message has been edited by Roger Z (edited 01-23-2004).]

It worked out reasonably well. The 3 inches of so of snow they got really helped out - there was actually some powder out there!

But then the crowds came and Gat rolled.

MAYBE Liberty tomorrow, but doubtful.

Very nice light fluffy powder that was pretty much tracked out by 11:30... didn't get there early enough, didn't even know it was supposed to SNOW! ;-(

Anyway, still plan on going in the AM. Unfortunately I do see the snow predicated start later. I think we will miss it, or most of it?

I am planning on not staying that late, not sure when but probably leaving 2-4 pm time frame. I'm a wee bit tired from today and not clear on what time I will arrive, aiming for 9 perhaps.

I certainly appreciate the offer of a 4-w toe up from Frederick. I may well take you up on the offer in the future.

Hmm, think I will write a quick snow report...

See ya tomorrow I hope!

My plan now is to ski hard until one p.m. and then take a late lunch, see how things look around two or so and maybe take a few more runs (if memory serves, the crowds start dispersing between 2:30 and 3). Then the apres-ski 2.11 coffee followed by what will probably be a longer-than-usual drive home.

Hope this ice storm pans out in the DC area Mon night/Tues. Sure would like a day off of work this week!

Did you guys make it up to Whitetail today (Sunday)? I skied from a little after 9 to about 2:30. I was looking out for your clothes/equipment descriptions, but couldn't definitely spot you guys. Roger, do you have racing tips on your skis, with yellow in the middle and a darker color on the side? I saw one person in the chair who possibly matched the red pom-pom hat description.

I say one of the early weekends in March is prime time for a DCSki tailgate @ Whitetail. It was a bit cold for tailgating today.

That said, conditions today were... hoo-ah. About as good as you can get around here without a foot of new snow. More later, too exhausted to write. Bold Decision was righetous. And Mitch the lines never got above five minutes in the singles! I took a 1:15 lunch and when I came back out at 2:15 the lines were noticeably shorter. That's the trick: go in around 12:45 and come out at 2 or so.

YYYYYAAAAAAWWWWWWNNNNN. Happy happy happy sleep tonight.

Couldn't locate the DCSki people. Even tried to look up Physics Man (Tom Mann?) in the instructor's 9AM line-up.

As you said, conditions totally rocked. Amazing packed powder which held up for the whole day. Even got some of that "corduroy hum" when you cut across freshly-rolled snow at high speed. Bold Decision was sweet! Before noon, the steeper roll sections were amazing; 4-8 foot drops with well-formed bumps below. Skied several runs straight down the rolls - it was like skiing steeps out West. After 12, some ruts were forming under the drops ruining the karma a bit. Prolly only got 5 runs total down BD - one disadvantage with skiing in a group.

With this storm, Monday @ Whitetail will only be better. Doubt I can call in sick on Monday since my boss will be there with his kids. Guess that's why he's the boss.

I made it, but I was WAY late from intended plan of arrival. I did NOT want to ski today when I awoke but eventually got it together and arrived at 10:30am. yes, that's 1.5 hrs past what i said...

I skied briefly on one of the blues and went over to the blacks. I didn't see anyone with red pom-poms on their head... did I get that right?

So I went back to blues and failed there too... going back to black again, I just said "forget it..." to myself and skied! ;-)

Anyway, that was probably around 11:30 and around 12 or so I DID then see someone up at the front of the line on that side with kinda a redish (rust?) hat with a SINGLE large POM-POM atop... I thought that might be RZ?

So I went up and came straight down and waited ... no POM-POM. Perhaps I was being hasty but I got tired of waiting and went back up to ski.

Awhile later, I just happened to turn around while getting on the lift, and I saw the same pom-pom in the back of the line out of the corner of my eye... again, zipped down exhibition and waited...

But then that was it. I skied there till 1:30 and then went to find the TnT group from the dc ski club in the lunch area which was a ZOO. But I eventually did find them & we skied a little together later in the afternoon.

Waiting for them, I skied on the front blues for a few runs, then went back to the black till something past 4;15... then left at 4:30pm

No pom-pom again!!!!

I hit BD twice ... I did try to take everyone's advice a bit, and I watched others who could make a go of it... Took some notes, tried a bit here and there. I think I improved! But only marginally... still I got better! I think I get it now though -- but I can't quite execute it. But maybe I can taste it a bit. That's good! Thanks to all for the tips!

Snow was nice, crowds were WORSE than saturday I thought. It kinda helped to be in the single line -- virtually no waiting for the high speed quad.

Found some ice here and there, more than yesterday. Got worse as the day went on it seemed.

Angledrop developed some tiny mogulettes... but I was just passing through. That trail is a MADHOUSE, a MAAAAAADHOUSEEEE!! (pop quiz: which movie?)

Still liked either Snowdancer or Fanciful on the front again (empty for a LONG time!), and the back I think has to go to Bold Decision! Exhibition was nicer today than yesterday I think, although it was briefly nicer with the powder before it got trampled on. I only hit Farside ONCE but it was a bit slicker, so lower marks today.

BD is the winner then by a HAIR! I may not be able to ski it, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate it!!! Just a dang nice run really.

Still thinking about that beer I must've missed... dang it all!

:-)

That might have been my red pom pom Kev. Of course I was doing similar things where I'd stop at the top or bottom of the lift for a couple minutes and look around, which was probably not helping people find each other. Did BD 11 times. Yes JohnL I agree the morning was phenomenal on the left side of BD. Those drops were sweet and if you didn't want to hop off them, you could set a very nice edge into their side and do a couple bunny hops down them. The right side had slightly more consistent moguls but a little icier and with that wide-open bare spot halfway down. Add to that the fact that every novice on the mountain seemed to be taking a stab at the right side of the field and it was better just avoided.

Far Side was in great shape, and I loved how empty Fanciful stayed on the front. The one time I tried to ski Angel Drop top to bottom I would have enjoyed the moguls BUT FOR the eight or nine thousand other people that were clustered on the run as well. Angel Drop, however, looks like the wide-open plains compared to the Stalker area in the afternoon.

Whitetail continues to work on its customer service-- they were always good but they're continuing to get better. For instance, if you buy an eight hour ticket on-line they extend it until ten p.m. (for the cost of an eight hour ticket)! Another hot spot: they let me on the lifts before 8:30 for the first time ever yesterday. I don't want to get on the lifts at 8 in the morning or anything but I do appreciate it when the lift attendant sees you ski up at 8:28 and says "go ahead." That's the essence of skiing; that kind of loose atmosphere about things that makes a day feel that much more relaxed. And finally, the fact that Whitetail has stopped running the snowmaking guns during the day. A lot of times they need to around here but I guess they feel their base is good enough right now that they don't have to blast their weekend guests-- makes a lot of people happier!

This is not meant as a complaint about WT or any other ski area but rather as an observation: this region needs more intermediate mogul fields. Wouldn't it be nice if the novices and intermediates did not have to pitch themselves down BD to start learning how to ski moguls? They don't belong there, they know it, but they don't really have a choice either. Why not, say, half of Limelight or something as a mogul field, the other half groomed? Having only one mogul trail on the mountain tends to make them unsafe in a way that they shouldn't be unsafe.

All-in-all- great day! Wish winter was like this more often around here.

I've noticed the past several weeks that they've really been making a ton of snow at night -- every night. On weekend days they've turned off the snowguns, but I can't remember a night where I haven't seen the guns running. Even last night, with tons of snow falling, it looked like they had guns going.

This is expensive, and probably not necessary with the already healthy base, but it's not hurting the quality of snow and is building up a base that should last through any thaws and well into March. I don't remember seeing such aggressive snowmaking in the past.

I am CRUSHED today -- and after 2 measily days of skiing at WT. I'll never make it out west! ;-(

I just want to agree with you on BD. The moguls extend up to the top of the trail head which is flattish. This is a nice place to practice except that it then heads to oblivion at the drop off.

For some reason i always hung a left & went down far left hand side which had much small bumps until about midpoint, then somewhat tired, I'd cross over (sorry!), and go down the far right which was moguless. At the bottom, where it flattens a bit, I just wanted to be down with it, so would find the easiest line - that was my prescription for the practice line...

That all said, it's a bit hard to really learn on BD-- that middle section on BD at the big drop off has such deep crevices, and huge mounds that's a bit hard to figure out what to do with it. I did see one brave soul covort straight over them and take the hits, but that did NOT look even remotely pleasant...

I did take this route at least once, and what I did is just try to follow the deep crevices with a kinda slide turn down and land it square at the bottom. Sometimes I could time it right and can make another... BUT often I have to readjust and then go for the next one.

This isn't particular efficient, nor is it that much fun, and it's more "picking" your way down than actually skiing moguls.

But on the shallower sections, I can make it more fluid, and in my mind at least, start to approach somewhat the style I most often see others taking...

Last year I think, maybe it was the year before, they let Exhibition bump up and that was SLIGHTLY easier than BD.

So I agree, a B-list mogul run would be nice...

Angle almost always, on a busy day, has some mini-bumps show up, but they always groom them out.

Take that back! Once they let Almost Home (the right fork at the split on Angle, just in case my trail is off) bump up a bit... odd, they did that, they have't repeated that i can recall!

Well, anyone ditch work and go skiing today!?

---

At the risk of getting it wrong, I think that left hand side had an nice even "zipper line..." ?

Anyway, it was a bit tight but the worst you were gonna do (i think) is end up bleeding speed out in the tree line or in the other direction up a steep mogul side. It was also a little cupped most of the way down which I think helps check speed.

Anyway, I was thinking about it more and this is MY precise line down to maximize learning ... but not get too entangled in the crazy stuff.

A) Start at the top, middle and work your way to the drop off angling towards the right hand side (or start farther right & go straight down). The easy slope and relative even spacing of the bumps, and their relatively low height, make this area somewhat "easy" to practice in... although it is short.

B) At the drop off, or slightly before it, angle over to the left hand side, try to avoid crossing over top of the bumps...

C) Now work your way down the left hand side. You can take this almost all the way down, possibly past the 2nd "step" in the hill... but I favored cutting over at some point before this.

D) Before cutting over far right, work a little into the deeper crevices in the middle..., and then back to safey of the left hand edge

C) On the left hand side use the even spacing, cupped nature of the terrain, and low bumps & shallow crevices to practice putting turns togethers... It is narrow but there is more room there (i think) than it seems

D) At some point you can then bail and head to the far right, definitely wait till you are well below the main drop off... the far right is very flat.

E) After your little bail out & rest, you have probably reached the bottom "wash out" area of the run. This is also filled with relatively small moguls, although they get quite a bit bigger to the middle & left... enter at your leisure, or just cruise out of it far right, more or less too.

F) You are done! Pat yourself on the back, take an easy run, and try again...

:-)

:-)

Kev,
I'm surprised more people don't take the left-hand side line that you described. Usually some of the best snow on the trail is there, plus it does somewhat simulate skiing a chute. It's a narrow line, but still a fair amount of room for most skiers. It's a far easier line than the very right side of the trail which has a bit of a double fall-line at the bottom in one section (off the trail into a streambed).

My favorite line is still right over the drop-offs, especially when the conditions are similar to what they were Sunday AM. Turn just before the drop-off, adjust your turn when you get to the lip and can see what's at the bottom, ski straight down the drop-off and turn at the bottom. No air needed or recommended. There was a smooth (but steep) transition from the drop-offs to the slope early Sunday AM. Unfortunately, as the day went on, the very bottom got pretty rutted (probably from skiers traversing below the drop-offs or skidding down the side of the drop-offs). Had to choose a different line when that happened.

Well what you described, I did go down the "water fall" in the middle but hardly with any aplomb, more just picking my way down. I only did this once so you can't blame me for rutting it up!! :-)

My line: straight down the middle lefthand side of BD with JohnL. I think there was some scraping (and a lot of bunny hopping down the sides) going on John but to be fair any turning in those ruts at the bottom was apt to deepen them. Just made it more of a challenge when you leapt in!

well maybe I should keep that one to myself..

:-)

I took today off (why drive 40 miles to a bankrupt company to do absolutely nothing but drive 40 miles home in an ICE STORM???), but did not go skiing. Just checked WT's website-- they left the entire expert side ungroomed for powder hounds with 8-10 inches of new snow. I am in tears for missing this-- would have been there at 8:30 on that BEAUTIFUL POWDER. Maybe I'll do some X-C skiing this afternoon if the ice holds off and my back feels better (getting older, the back is noticing the moguls more each year).

KevR that far left side, btw, was the spot to be working on moguls. I was surprised more newbies didn't head for it-- probably intimated by it's narrowness.

And any golf course will work in a pinch!

>WINTER WEEKEND
>Feel like skiing? Cross country skiing? Tubing? Something else
>outdoorsy? Join TNT for a weekend trip, where you can participate in any
>or all of these activities.
>
>We'll be staying in Terra Alta, WV (about 3 hours from DC). From here,
>downhill skiing, cross-country skiing, and many other activities are
>within easy reach. The exact plan for the weekend events will depend on
>what the leaders and attendees want to do.
>
>For more information, or to sign up, download the flier from
>http://www.pobox.com/~dbrinker/weekends/winterweekend.html. Sign up
>quickly - space is limited!
>
>(NOTE: We need a second leader for this trip. Someone who knows the
>cross-country skiing in the area would be ideal, but not required. If
>you're willing to volunteer, or want to know what's involved, let me know)
> Date: Friday, January 30 - Sunday, February 1, 2004
> Leader: Tracy Bartlett
> tracy_bartlett@yahoo.com
> Where: Alpine Lake Resort
> Terra Alta, WV
> Cost: $102

Just FYI...

I only have the track style skis myself (cheapos) but they work ok on golf courses and other areas that have fairly well groomed terrain. One year at Stowe I took skate skiing lessons which I thought was fun. But you have to have a groomed area to do that.

I always thought it would be cool to live in area where you could x-c ski regularly and then downhill also when you want in relatively convenience.

Of course that's a just a big fantasy, there are not places like that in reality!

:-)

I will see on Saturday I guess...

Or maybe they just groom the top part off and the bottom, and sorta leave the middle alone.

Like I said at least one year BD and Exhibition or bumped up and it seemed to stay this way for a long time before Exhibition was finally groomed.

I'd like to see the whole black side left ungroomed for awhile just for the heck of it...

PowderPig,
In fairness to a lot of the people you often see struggling down Bold Decision, it is significantly harder than the other trails @ Whitetail and the tough section is a "hidden surprise" half-way down the trail. The top is pretty mellow and I don't ever recall there being any sort of warning at the top about the difficulty of the trail.

At least the headwall is relatively short so its not a long trip to the bottom if someone is having problems.

That said, since Bold Decision is a double black and it's one of my favorite trails in the Mid-Atlantic, I make no attempt to ski far around anyone stopped on the trail. I do make that attempt on other Whitetail trails, unless I know that person and they become human slalom poles or snow-spray stoppers.

I did see some egregious behavior on Sunday. At 3:15 a father was dragging his seven year old daughter down the trail, and she was in tears screaming "I CAN'T DO IT!!!" These are the types of incidents that a second, less difficult mogul field would help reduce (but obviously not reduce completely). What really caught my attention was the "novice progression." On Sunday morning, when BD was at it's best, 90% of the skiers on it were advanced or intermediate working on their moguls. By noon a few novices had crept on but mostly kept to one side of the trail. At three p.m., when the trail had deteriorated (huge ruts, lots of ice, etc), there were novices strewn all over the trail. It was impossible to stay in a line for more than a half dozen turns because there was another person literally laying on the snow, having failed to link his/her snowplow turns.

I wish people understood how much risk they are adding by bringing beginners/novices onto trails like BD at the end of the day. The trail is in very bad shape and even the best skiers are tired and not responding as quickly. It's an invitation for a disaster. Maybe a warning sign at the top would be a help after all-- ski patrol could warn and/or pull tickets of people who don't belong on the run then.

And I am aware of this and make some effort to stop to one side out of the way so that I am not blocking anyone.

But of course this isn't always possible to block no one's line ... once or twice I have moved to one side or the other of the trail to avoid the real skiers.

heck I know this happens to me ON OTHER trails that I can actually ski on so I try to keep that in mind when I am in a bit over my head.

And I agree with RZ that a "Little Bold Decision" is needed at WT.

Maybe we could call the jr version "Cheeky Decision"

:-)

I think we're talking more about beginners and lower-level intermediates trying to tackle a trail like Bold Decision.

Anywhere you stop on a trail, you can possibly block someone's line. I've been in the way of someone coming down BD when I've stopped on the left side (the line you described before.) Even though I was near the side of the trail, lot's of people like to ski down the side of the trail.

?????????????

You went looking for a mogul run, you found a mogul run, and then you complain you found a mogul run?

If you don't like the trail, don't ski it. Plenty of other trails on the mountain.

Bold Decision this past Sunday AM was very tame and very skiable. Hate to hear what you'd say about Mary Jane Mtn in Winter Park.

bumps = grooves. Bold Decision is Whitetail's primary mogul run. It is also a double black, indicating it is generally the toughest trail on the mountain.

I was pretty impressed with the general caliber of skiers on the mountain Sunday AM. There were some skiers really ripping the groomers and the bumps. I'd place the group I was skiing with in that category.

[This message has been edited by JohnL (edited 01-28-2004).]

[This message has been edited by JohnL (edited 01-28-2004).]

I think Seven springs or liberty where they have a more moderate pitched bump run makes it easier to make the transition to bumps, but liberty's bumps are so icy. BD is double black for a reason. It is probably the most challengeintrail at any of the snowtime resorts. It is one of the longest mogul runs (in terms of vertical) that this area has to offer so its not for the faint of heart and is certainly not for the newbies trying to learn. If a person want to learn bumps at WT then try them on exhibition when it gets bumped up, the slope isnt as steep.

Does whittail ever let snow dancer or fancypants get bumped up? Maybe we should suggest it to them.

Skier123 good luck with finding a mogul field that you'd like. I saw several skiers were linking a dozen or more turns, far more than two or three (though most troughs were rarely more than two or three moguls long). As they say at MRG, don't blame the trail for your own shortcomings. I've had my a** kicked numerous times but will 'fess up that I wasn't up to the run; for instance the Hobacks at Jackson Hole ate me alive. The run didn't suck, I did. That's why I ski BD hard and often-- so the next time I get to the Hobacks the fight will be more even. I even chant that when I'm running in the off season to work on my stamina-- "remember the Hobacks! Remember the Hobacks!" BD was a fairly hard run on Sunday (though not too hard), not a bad one.

Ok, well, I hadn't intended to stop skiing BD but I thought perhaps he was right, I am on the tail end of ability there, no doubt about.

I will say this -- Fancypants has got to be the best trail name!

Ok -- so switching completely & possibly outside the rules & regulations.

Anyone want to go to Hunter for ~$150 per night next weekend (lift/lodging/breakfast voucher) or maybe the 3rd weekend in Feb?

I've been left holding the bag on a small condo and I am DESPERATELY seeking skiers ...

Not kidding.

I'd love to help you out, but I can't make either of the two weekends. I have ski trips planned for both.

KevR-- Hunter??? Of all the great ski resorts within six hours of here you got stuck with Hunter? I hear that place is a complete zoo on the weekends.

While I have not been to Winter Park, I've skied mogul fields in Whistler Blackcomb, Kitzbuhl, etc so it's not as if I don't have anything to compare it to.

I'm glad that there were people who were enjoying it on Sunday. I was just expressing my opinion on the conditions.