Since we're back on the topic of Mt. Porte Crayon and all.... I was out on Terra Server the other day looking at some CV and Garrett Co stuff and I thought this was pretty interesting. This image, taken April 8, 1997 shows Timberline in all it's spring glory and Canaan Valley looking equally, regally, white.

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=14&x=199&y=1349&z=17&w=1

Now, for all you MPC/Tory Mtn/Almost Heaven fans, if you scroll 6 times "down" across Mt. Porte Crayon and the Roaring Plains, and 2 times left towards Shavers Fork, you will see a "mystery ski area"

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=14&x=197&y=1344&z=17&w=1

This is Tory Mtn, which almost got off the ground about 15 or 20 years ago. If you zoom in (click right on the ski slopes) you can really see how close it was to reality. Pretty much just needs a couple of lifts and some snow making. If nothing else, it's amazing (at least to me) how much bigger is was going to be than TL or CV are today. Perhaps recycling this makes more sense for a "new" area than tearing up MPC....

I guess in fairness I should have also posted all the snow at Wisp, with Deep Creek Lake shimmering in the sun

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=14&x=200&y=1367&z=17&w=1

Seven Springs and Hidden Valley

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=14&x=202&y=1384&z=17&w=1

And, of course, Snowshoe/Silver Creek (pre Shay Revenge).....

http://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=14&x=183&y=1328&z=17&w=1

Does anyone know who owns/ what the ownership issues are with Tory?

How much land was purchased during initial development?

I have some information... but I have always questioned the validity.

The slopes on Tory Mountain face south?

Just a few degrees off due north, actually. The base is at the top of the image - you can see the road coming in from Harmon on the left, ending in the "parking lot"/base area. The three lift line cuts are visible going up the mtn (down in the image). The five main runs come together at the top of the mtn with the smaller runs off to the east (sort of like the Whitetail layout).

A good idea of the scale can be had by comparing the 4 meter resolution image to the 4 meter image of TL or CV or Snowshoe. The runs are quite long (though from looking at them in person, I don't recall them as being particularily steep.)

I remember that Tory had three phases proposed, and what is shown in the terraserver image was the first phase. The second was going to be shorter and to the east (right) in the photo, if I remember right, and the third was going to be a little around the back side, again on the east.

Seems from the photo there is room to expand to the west and add to the 1100 foot vertical though (that's what they used to claim as their vertical on their old advertisements). They had planned a Homestead-type luxury complex at the base of the mountain and ran out of funding before they ever built it.

What i heard was that the power co wanted a million or so bucks to wire them up & bieng big money in those days ,that was the straw that broke the camels back.It was suposed to be 1500' vert which i think was posible with the slopes around the east side dropping down a little further.I have been watching the weather forever & i feel that there is a little bit of global warming going on.I think snowshoe would have recieved some very heavy wet snow in years past during the borderline snows.I feel the latitude is becoming more important.As you head south from western PA the cold air drops off fast.Thats why i feel that as nice as a mtn that tory is it would be a lot safer to dev a mtn that is further north & a few hundred feet higher.Now some of you are saying we are only talking a few miles,but i used to live just north of germantown,md a few years back & we would get 3' of snow Where gaithersburg was almost all rain.This happened many times during the 4 years i lived there.Head for the largest most northern mtn!

I don't know if it's global warming or not but over the last 20 years there have definitely been winters that you win with latitude and some winters that you win with altitude. The latitude winters are ones where snow will only dance down to southern PA or northern WV and the altitude ones sometimes you'll see snow above 3000 in WV and then no snow again until you get up to Williamsport or so. For the big storms this winter, this seemed to be a latitude winter... kind of . There were some storms that ran through TN and NC that completely missed the Mid-Atlantic, so it wasn't clean. Three winters ago, if I remember right, it snowed like heck up north and we (including WV) got almost nothing.

Andy or someone else: do you have the snowfall totals for a mountain in NC as well as Snowshoe? Whitegrass is saying 150 inches and counting. That's above average for them (last twelve years as averaged around 134 by Whitegrass' count). Was wondering how the averages did further south.

For those latitude winters, we need a new ski resort on Tuscarora Mountain north of Harrisburg! (well, if people are gonna boost MPC I'm starting a TMT fan club , reality be darned! )

I have been watching the weather forever too andy and i feel that there is a little bit of total anarchy going on. Two years ago I thought we were crashing into the sun and the last two Januarys I thought the sun had gone and burn itself out. Even better, Sunday I thought it was summer and Monday I was planning my trip to ski 17" powder in Snowshoe. If you can observe any kind of global trend in this area you are a better man than I.

Mr z & Jr,Start off with stats..88.1" have fallen so far at 5000' in NW NC this is above thier 70" ave.Snow shoe has recieved 163" at 4800' they still have a little to go to reach thier 180" ave....150" at 3200' in canaan & snowing as i speak hopefully,is thier ave.SS recieved 215' last year while canaan got 224".In 95/96 canaan recieved almost 250'while i think SS almost got 300".That same year i had a buddy working at T-line who told me it snowed 320" on top at nearly 4300'.WG for years measured the snow in the morn like most of us do,which is always less than the anount that has actually fallen.I think the 150" ave for 3200' in canaan is accurate. To get back to my weather hunch,allthough we have had 2 cold & snowy years in a row It is a little missleading.I feel that the snow totals could be more than they are.Its like a step off,when a artic front comes thru the changover to snow is just a little slower.instead of a nice 6" dump a lot of times the 1st inch or 2 comes in the liquid form.& we have a 4" snowfall.In the last few years ive watched it snow at somerset co,PA & been raining at SS when during similar type weather systems it would have been dumping at the shoe.Canaan has been beating SS in the snow dept consistently.Canaan has kept a much higher snow depth over the last 2 winters.This was unheard of 15 years back.Look I'm just an ex hippy with a lot of sunspots on the brain so forgive me if anybody thinks I'm off my rocker!

Which brings us back to johnfmh's statement that Intrawest wanted to buy Timberline. That was obviously before they bought Snowshoe, right? Did they see it had more potential with the weather? Was it easier to expand a huge village there since its not on top of the mountain? Was Snowshoe not for sale yet? I wonder if Intrawest would have planted new trees in all the glades to eliminate all the great glade skiing since they obviously have no desire to have much at the shoe. You can ski between 7 trees on the flat Knott Bumper Glades, ski in some really messy glades at Silver Creek, or there's actually some decent glades over on lower Cupp. I got yelled at once in there (with a huge base snow though i might add) by a ski patroller that was skiing in there. You'd think it'd be more dangerous to break someone's concentration during a curve around a tree by yelling than to just let them ski it and catch them at the bottom to tell them but whatever, i'm not highly trained.

I found those glades at the bottom of Cupp's Run, too. Which glades were you talking about at silver creek - I skied in some between the two black runs at far skier's left of the area. Seems like it wouldn't be TOO much work for mgmt. to clear out those areas and make them bona fide glades.