I posted this over on SkiDiva, and so apologize for the redundancy.  It occured to me that since this forum's focus is mid-Atlantic skiing and boarding, this would be a better place for it:

This was my first season in 30 years, and a family situation in Vermont had me commuting from notheast Pennsylvania to Vermont fairly frequently.

I found that I enjoyed skiing in VT/NH much more than in PA (Blue/Camelback), and not because the snow was really any better in New England this year, nor because of the larger sizes of the resorts (I was often at smaller places like Ragged Mountain and Pat's Peak).

What I liked about northern New England was that when I heard someone behind me, I didn't become instantly fearful for my safety. The heavy, "scritching" sound of a snowboard or skier behind me in the Poconos always sparks intense fear, and I spent a lot of time on the sides of slopes waiting for an opening in the crowds. I'm a decent intermediate, and I ski crowded slopes very predictably, with tight turns so I'm not putting myself in people's paths unexpectedly. Even so, young skiers and boarders would still come screaming straight down the fall line, and I was brushed several times--instances that came within literally an inch of being potentially season-ending if not tragic. There just seems to be a culture of recklessness combined with low skill levels in the Poconos that I did not see at all in New England. The slopes in PA are littered with snowboarders in terrible places (hairpin turns, the middle of a trail, often under a hump so they're not visible...). Both Blue and Camelback seem to have a very visible ski patrol presence, but I didn't notice that making any difference.

This year, my Peak pass gets me into JackFrost, which I'm told is far less crowded on weekends than Blue/CBK, which can get crazy. I'm thinking about buying a spine protector just in case I get hit. And I'm now very selective about when and where I ski. But at the same time, I don't want to miss time on the mountain.

I wonder if those of you with more varied experience can speak to this issue. Is the recklessness a regional phenomenon? What strategies do you use to avoid dangerous crowds?  Are there resorts that police reckless skiing better than others, or that simply hav a culture that discourages it?  Thanks for any feedback!  
 

SallyCat wrote:

I posted this over on SkiDiva, and so apologize for the redundancy.  It occured to me that since this forum's focus is mid-Atlantic skiing and boarding, this would be a better place for it:

This was my first season in 30 years, and a family situation in Vermont had me commuting from notheast Pennsylvania to Vermont fairly frequently.

I found that I enjoyed skiing in VT/NH much more than in PA (Blue/Camelback), and not because the snow was really any better in New England this year, nor because of the larger sizes of the resorts (I was often at smaller places like Ragged Mountain and Pat's Peak).

What I liked about northern New England was that when I heard someone behind me, I didn't become instantly fearful for my safety. The heavy, "scritching" sound of a snowboard or skier behind me in the Poconos always sparks intense fear, and I spent a lot of time on the sides of slopes waiting for an opening in the crowds. I'm a decent intermediate, and I ski crowded slopes very predictably, with tight turns so I'm not putting myself in people's paths unexpectedly. Even so, young skiers and boarders would still come screaming straight down the fall line, and I was brushed several times--instances that came within literally an inch of being potentially season-ending if not tragic. There just seems to be a culture of recklessness combined with low skill levels in the Poconos that I did not see at all in New England. The slopes in PA are littered with snowboarders in terrible places (hairpin turns, the middle of a trail, often under a hump so they're not visible...). Both Blue and Camelback seem to have a very visible ski patrol presence, but I didn't notice that making any difference.

This year, my Peak pass gets me into JackFrost, which I'm told is far less crowded on weekends than Blue/CBK, which can get crazy. I'm thinking about buying a spine protector just in case I get hit. And I'm now very selective about when and where I ski. But at the same time, I don't want to miss time on the mountain.

I wonder if those of you with more varied experience can speak to this issue. Is the recklessness a regional phenomenon? What strategies do you use to avoid dangerous crowds?  Are there resorts that police reckless skiing better than others, or that simply hav a culture that discourages it?  Thanks for any feedback!  
 

I have skied all around the US and I am reluctant to say some regions have more reckless skiers than others.  I think the issue may be more which day of the week and which category of ski area you are visiting?  For example, you could ski mtns that are busy like Whitetail or Blue Mtn on a prime mid-winter weekend and likely experience a good dose of the type of aggressive and fear inducing skiers you are concerned about.  But if you went back to those areas on a weekday they would seem quite different and safe.  I have never skied Ragged and Pats Peak.  They sound like smaller ski areas with perhaps a less frenzied atmosphere compared to larger resorts or busy weekender mtns like Blue that are close to large metro areas.  

So to avoid busy/reckless days go on weekdays, go late season, go to smaller ski areas in more remote locations. Looking at Peak Resorts I see that Wildcat is in that group.  It may be a great choice most days for your preferences.

I would add that I have great appreciation for your concerns.  They are the sort of thing that eventually motivated my wife to quit skiing.  She had decent ski skills and many years of experience, but she often skied in great fear anticipating getting hit from behind by fast movers.  My advice is to continue to explore this topic and avoid days and ski areas where you are likely to encounter large crowds. Also, keep working on your skills so that you become a little more aggresive yourself, but in a fun and pleasing way.  But in any event, don't give up.  The ski world is big enough to provide almost every kind of experience anyone is looking for:-)

I have skied all around the US and I am reluctant to say some regions have more reckless skiers than others.  I think the issue may be more which day of the week and which category of ski area you are visiting?

I agree 100% with JimK. I grew up sking New England, and there are plenty of dangerous skiers/slopes up there.

Avoid crowded areas and crowded slopes. That is pretty simple. Unfortunately, most skiers can only ski on the weekend (which is the most crowded time.) And most skier are intermediates, meaning they ski the most crowded slopes.

The closer the area is to a major population center and the smaller the area (Mid A areas have generally less ski acreage than in NE), the greater the risk of collisions and obnoxious behaviour. Cram too many people into a small space and bad stuff happens. Happens with anything: driving, skiing, bars, restaurants, public areas, etc.

But I have to take a gratuitous dig at where you are skiing. You are skiing areas near Filthy-delphia. The city whose fans boo'ed Santa Claus. Whose old baseball/football stadium used to have a jail in it. Whose hockey team is filled with goons and their mothers are even worse.

 

But I have to take a gratuitous dig at where you are skiing. You are skiing areas near Filthy-delphia. The city whose fans boo'ed Santa Claus. Whose old baseball/football stadium used to have a jail in it. Whose hockey team is filled with goons and their mothers are even worse.

Lol,  I'm not native to the area--moved to the Lehigh Valley for work 10 years ago. Saints fan. I am utterly baffled by Philly sports.  I turned down tix to the Saints-Eagles playoffs a few years ago b/c I feard for my safety.  

I will say that I've been surprised how often I can ski here versus VT/NH.  NE PA may not be a Mecca of great snow and big resorts, but I'm 30 minutes from a hill that's open until 10pm every night.  I worked hard and skied a lot this past season and really improved my skills dramatically; much more than if I'd only been able to get out on weekends. 

Thanks for the responses; it probably seems like a really obvious issue, but it's new to me and I appreciate the brader perspective. I've had some great suggestions on less crowded local areas. 

I’ve had some great suggestions on less crowded local areas.

Elk. Montage. Plattekill.

I've skied Elk and Plattekill (further drive, maybe only a few times a year for you.) You'll love them.

Edit: family friendly places.

Ski the closer areas night skiing during the week (avoiding the packs of teenage boys - I used to be one) and take longer trips on the weekend.

Best of both worlds.

If you find an area you like, look for a seasonal rental to cover the weekend trips and cut down on the weekly packing, hotel costs, etc. Share rental with friends.

JimK wrote:

 

I have skied all around the US and I am reluctant to say some regions have more reckless skiers than others.  I think the issue may be more which day of the week and which category of ski area you are visiting?  For example, you could ski mtns that are busy like Whitetail or Blue Mtn on a prime mid-winter weekend and likely experience a good dose of the type of aggressive and fear inducing skiers you are concerned about.  But if you went back to those areas on a weekday they would seem quite different and safe.  I have never skied Ragged and Pats Peak.  They sound like smaller ski areas with perhaps a less frenzied atmosphere compared to larger resorts or busy weekender mtns like Blue that are close to large metro areas.  

So to avoid busy/reckless days go on weekdays, go late season, go to smaller ski areas in more remote locations. Looking at Peak Resorts I see that Wildcat is in that group.  It may be a great choice most days for your preferences.

I would add that I have great appreciation for your concerns.  They are the sort of thing that eventually motivated my wife to quit skiing.  She had decent ski skills and many years of experience, but she often skied in great fear anticipating getting hit from behind by fast movers.  My advice is to continue to explore this topic and avoid days and ski areas where you are likely to encounter large crowds. Also, keep working on your skills so that you become a little more aggresive yourself, but in a fun and pleasing way.  But in any event, don't give up.  The ski world is big enough to provide almost every kind of experience anyone is looking for:-)

I have to agree with JimK. There are reckelss skiers/boarders everywhere. I don't see a difference in behavior in different parts of the country. Busier resorts have more more reckeless people because they simply have more people. I don't think that percentage wise they have a higher percentage.

Theoretically people in Colorado know how to ski, yet 3 people have died at Breckenridge in the last month, 2 at Copper this season, with 1 death at Keystone. Of course those three areas have had somewhere around 3.6 million skier days so far this season.

"... Theoretically people in Colorado know how to ski, yet 3 people have died at Breckenridge in the last month, 2 at Copper this season, with 1 death at Keystone. Of course those three areas have had somewhere around 3.6 million skier days so far this season. .."

and another here in Park City - an instructor from Apen : Skier dies after hitting tree at Park City Mountain Resort

Not everyone  that is "Reckless" ends up in a bad way ...  read the back of your lift ticket. You *are* engaging in a dangerous sport that can result in catastrophic injury or death - yes? That includes dealing with other people, obstacles, equipment, etc.

If you feel nervous it is probably a good thing ... maybe that feeling puts things into its correct perspective. This is why i don't ski on any big holidays etc. The risk is probably greater than a big run off the tram at Snowbird.

 

Not everyone  that is "Reckless" still ends up in a bad way ...  read the back of your lift ticket. You *are* engaging in a dangerous sport that can result in catastrophic injury or death - yes? That includes dealing with other people, obstacles, equipment, etc.

Oh, I agree; I was just looking for some insight as to why I had such different experiences in the two regions. Everyone's comments here were very helpful and make perfect sense: small skiable areas, population density, and infrequent skiers.  So it's not really the culture here, it's just geography and demographics.  

I'm not particulary risk-averse: (whitewater paddler, long-distance hiker, and mountain biker). But the experience of fearing injury *caused by another person* was new, so I just wanted some feedback from more experienced skiers in the area.  Thanks to everyone who contrbuted!

SallyCat wrote:

 

 

Not everyone  that is "Reckless" still ends up in a bad way ...  read the back of your lift ticket. You *are* engaging in a dangerous sport that can result in catastrophic injury or death - yes? That includes dealing with other people, obstacles, equipment, etc.

Oh, I agree; I was just looking for some insight as to why I had such different experiences in the two regions. Everyone's comments here were very helpful and make perfect sense: small skiable areas, population density, and infrequent skiers.  So it's not really the culture here, it's just geography and demographics.  

I'm not particulary risk-averse: (whitewater paddler, long-distance hiker, and mountain biker). But the experience of fearing injury *caused by another person* was new, so I just wanted some feedback from more experienced skiers in the area.  Thanks to everyone who contrbuted!

it will always happen  - i've had a ton of it no matter where i have been. i remember i was all set up for a great tree run off Dreamscape at "the Can" on a powder day and had my line all picked out. Then this guy snakes me - jumps in in front of me and crashes and burns about 10 feet in front of me. i try to crank a short radius turn so i don't hit him but it was too much to ask from my skis at the time (Dynastar Nobis Inspireds) . I go down too and try to aim between two trees and bonk the side of my head. It sounded like two frozen turkeys clacking together, i was lucky - my nice Dale of Norway hat had lots of padding around it. Two inches to the left and i'd have an IQ of not my usual 140 but about 70. At least in the back-country you have a reasonable chance of not being ground to a pulp in an avalanche induction but holiday tourists will getcha good.

Crush wrote

Not everyone  that is "Reckless" ends up in a bad way ...  read the back of your lift ticket. You *are* engaging in a dangerous sport that can result in catastrophic injury or death - yes? That includes dealing with other people, obstacles, equipment, etc.

If you feel nervous it is probably a good thing ... maybe that feeling puts things into its correct perspective. This is why i don't ski on any big holidays etc. The risk is probably greater than a big run off the tram at Snowbird.

 

 

Well said. I also avoid busy times. My mantra is "not weekends, not holidays, not Christmas/New Years, and especially not Texas Spring Break week." I do weekends only in April, when crowds are far lighter.

That being said, there is always the risk of being run into. It's happened to me 6 times in the last 25 years. Three could have been serious, but weren't - it was just good luck. I was knocked down twice last season, and brushed, but not knocked down, three times this year. One of the three brushes could have been a real disaster.

Any feelings one way or another about wearing a spine protector?