So here we are in 2021 and CVR is still limping along... we're entering prime ski season and CVR claims to have 12 runs open.

But even this unimpressive 25% is misleading.  The trail count indicates there really is just one blue to black "run" down from the quad (Upper Curve/Chute/Vista/Face).  Pathetic.

Normally I wouldn't care.  Put a crappy product on the market and I won't buy it.  But CVR is on the Indy Pass now.  Anyone who bought an Indy Pass (like me) would have a reasonable expectation that the participating resorts would at least make a minimal effort to open terrain.

I'd appreciate any comments/insight as to why they aren't making snow and opening terrain.  It appears GM Steve Drumheller left and was replaced by Sam England, could this be a factor? skisoutheast.com

Here is an interesting press release from 2018 quoting Drumheller and claiming they doubled their snowmaking capacity. canaanresort.com

I plan on lodging my concerns with Doug Fish and/or Sam England, so thanks for any helpful background and comments.

 good, stay the hell out of tucker county then since you are too good for us. You just insulted people I know well and work with in the school system and I don't know any who fit that description at all.  

Goback todc wrote:

Hahaha, requisite for most state employee's in W.Va is just making it to work. Look at the teachers they don't even make it to work. I'm shocked they have this much open at CV.

 dont bring teachers into this. I work in the school system and don't know any fitting that description.  Since you are too good for this area, you might as well stay home. 

Goback todc wrote:

Hahaha, requisite for most state employee's in W.Va is just making it to work. Look at the teachers they don't even make it to work. I'm shocked they have this much open at CV.

I too was pretty shocked at the conditions when I was there last week (Tues Dec 22nd). I got up to the ticket window as the ticket lady was Xing out the previous day's trail count of 28 and changing it to 12. I'm thinking, "Crap, I'll just go to Timberline instead." However, as I hadn't skied Canaan before I figured that I'd just bite the bullet and see how it went. Not well was the answer. After paying $340 for 4 adult tickets (the same price that I would have paid if I had gone to Timberline), we proceeded to the "lifts". Actually, just one lift was open and it was a piece of junk. I haven't been in a chair that uncomfortable since I was probably a kid. Even my kids were shocked at how outdated the seats were and how slow the lift was. And  the two trails that were open from the top (I have no idea where they got the 12 trails count from) weren't in great shape. After about the first hour or so, most of the blown snow was scraped off to the base of hard ice. I really felt sorry for the beginner skiers (which seemed to be the majority of skiers that day) trying to negotiate the icy trails; there was plenty of, uh, interesting skiing/crashing going on. 

I know that this place is owned/run by the state. I'm not expecting state of the art/latest greatest facilities and/or conditions. However, the product that they're selling right now is pretty piss poor. Why go to Canaan when you can drive down the street to Timberline and have a much better experience? 

Have patience with Timberline as they expand snowmaking and trail carving over there next few years, but Timberline is where it is at! Talkign with resort staff, they will be making a push to finish up construction on the lodge and remodel the hotel next. But also they have short term plans of running more new water lines and installing additional snowmaking machines all over the mountain. They also are bringing back night skiing in the coming season or two. Their goal is to have that back next year.

Don't forget that they will be looking to invest long term in expanding their mountain with the additional 440 acres they own, but they also could be a prime mountain biking destination in the summer.

 Looks like the teachers union is gonna prove my point.

 https://wvva.com/2021/01/03/west-virginia-teachers-union-to-start-surveys-monday-on-governors-return-to-school-plan/ chaga wrote:

 dont bring teachers into this. I work in the school system and don't know any fitting that description.  Since you are too good for this area, you might as well stay home. 

Goback todc wrote:

Hahaha, requisite for most state employee's in W.Va is just making it to work. Look at the teachers they don't even make it to work. I'm shocked they have this much open at CV.

Please stop banging on the teachers’ union. You may know a lot less about teachers than you think and this is a ski site. 

Goback todc wrote:

 Looks like the teachers union is gonna prove my point.

 https://wvva.com/2021/01/03/west-virginia-teachers-union-to-start-surveys-monday-on-governors-return-to-school-plan/ chaga wrote:

 dont bring teachers into this. I work in the school system and don't know any fitting that description.  Since you are too good for this area, you might as well stay home. 

Goback todc wrote:

Hahaha, requisite for most state employee's in W.Va is just making it to work. Look at the teachers they don't even make it to work. I'm shocked they have this much open at CV.

 Sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities dclivejazz. I dont think the "teachers' union" will mind, oh and there are a lot of posts on this forum that have nothing to do with skiing. 

dclivejazz wrote:

Please stop banging on the teachers’ union. You may know a lot less about teachers than you think and this is a ski site. 

Goback todc wrote:

 Looks like the teachers union is gonna prove my point.

 https://wvva.com/2021/01/03/west-virginia-teachers-union-to-start-surveys-monday-on-governors-return-to-school-plan/ chaga wrote:

 dont bring teachers into this. I work in the school system and don't know any fitting that description.  Since you are too good for this area, you might as well stay home. 

Goback todc wrote:

Hahaha, requisite for most state employee's in W.Va is just making it to work. Look at the teachers they don't even make it to work. I'm shocked they have this much open at CV.

 

 Man - this is not cool. My wife is a former teacher and now a middle school counselor. 

I watch her bust her effing ass every day for those special needs kids.  Phone calls at night with the police and child services involving at-risk kids with messed up lives.  

I really wish you'd rethink your position on this post.

Goback todc wrote:

Hahaha, requisite for most state employee's in W.Va is just making it to work. Look at the teachers they don't even make it to work. I'm shocked they have this much open at CV.

Blue Don 1982 wrote:

 Man - this is not cool. My wife is a former teacher and now a middle school counselor. 

I watch her bust her effing ass every day for those special needs kids.  Phone calls at night with the police and child services involving at-risk kids with messed up lives.  

I really wish you'd rethink your position on this post.

Goback todc wrote:

Hahaha, requisite for most state employee's in W.Va is just making it to work. Look at the teachers they don't even make it to work. I'm shocked they have this much open at CV.

 Unions are not good for students as it let’s some very suspect people stay in employment that they couldn’t handle in the private sector I know personally teachers in Fairfax who are alcoholics because of the protection unions provide, you only have to look up the principal at a Fairfax county middle school who was arrested for not turning in an abusive teacher,  people have to speak up when they see something wrong 

Let's stay on topic, please.

Woody

Give the time for low temps these next 14 days will help to open more terrain.

Weather temps and humidity matter for snow operations. as for staffing, all resorts have staff issues now this year no foreign workers allowed re covid. 

on avg 100% open is a combination of temps humidity and nat snow some years we have better early weather. 

Canaan bought a few new low energy tower guns and a bunch of pre-owned TechnoAlpin T40 fan guns. That should mean they can make more snow faster. However, they generally run their guns in local control or manual, not from a central control station like for example Whitetail. Also, I don't believe their main pumphouse was upgraded at the same time, so their maximum output didn't go up any, just what they can do in relatively warm weather.

Regardless of their snowmaking crew's work ethic, they can only output so much water at once. That's the same reason Blue Knob has 6 trails open, they have about 1/3 of Canaan's pumphouse. That's the same reason Magic Mtn has a handful of trails open, they have also about 1/3 of Canaan's water capacity (though effectively even less this year as a pump motor died on them).

Whitetails' system is computerized like Wintergreen and Wisp correct? Snowshoe may have something similar. I wouldn't be surprised to see if Timberline will go that route in the future. 

As for CV, it makes zero sense to buy additional equipment that is only good for the output of their operation if they do not invest in the input portion of their system. That includes lines, pumps, main pumphouse, etc.

I don't know a lot about snowmaking obviously, but from being an engineer, if you don't first invest in your input of mechanical and plumbing systems then whatever you spend on the output portion of the system is a waste of money as you are not achieving the desired result. They need to flip the way they look at investing in infrastructure. 

Thefirewarde wrote:

Canaan bought a few new low energy tower guns and a bunch of pre-owned TechnoAlpin T40 fan guns. That should mean they can make more snow faster. However, they generally run their guns in local control or manual, not from a central control station like for example Whitetail. Also, I don't believe their main pumphouse was upgraded at the same time, so their maximum output didn't go up any, just what they can do in relatively warm weather.

Regardless of their snowmaking crew's work ethic, they can only output so much water at once. That's the same reason Blue Knob has 6 trails open, they have about 1/3 of Canaan's pumphouse. That's the same reason Magic Mtn has a handful of trails open, they have also about 1/3 of Canaan's water capacity (though effectively even less this year as a pump motor died on them).

If the new guns can make snow in more marginal conditions, as the earlier post indicates, then it could make sense. I have no idea if CVR is actually running the snowguns in more marginal conditions. I agree that ideally this would be part of a longer term campaign to improve the entire system but I doubt this is the case. 

nickhaas212 wrote:

As for CV, it makes zero sense to buy additional equipment that is only good for the output of their operation if they do not invest in the input portion of their system. That includes lines, pumps, main pumphouse, etc.

Thefirewarde wrote:

Canaan bought a few new low energy tower guns and a bunch of pre-owned TechnoAlpin T40 fan guns. That should mean they can make more snow faster. However, they generally run their guns in local control or manual, not from a central control station like for example Whitetail. Also, I don't believe their main pumphouse was upgraded at the same time, so their maximum output didn't go up any, just what they can do in relatively warm weather.

RodneyBD wrote:

Thanks for the useful background.  I hadn't thought about the worker shortage, which is real and may be legitimately hindering their efforts to operate the ski resort.

In anticipate seasonal worker shortages throughout the year in the recreation industry-- even if it's healthy enough to get pools open, for example, who will staff them?

What water supply does CV have?

Up until Massanutten installed a 2-mile long water pike from the valley and got permission to use more surface water, the issue when there was a cold snap that allowed 24-hour snowmaking for more than a couple days was running out of water.  Wintergreen has also had water issues in recent years when not enough base existed to get through a Jan or early Feb meltdown.

Does anyone know what became of Drumheller?  Did a quick internet search but found nothing...

RodneyBD wrote:

So here we are in 2021 and CVR is still limping along... we're entering prime ski season and CVR claims to have 12 runs open.

But even this unimpressive 25% is misleading.  The trail count indicates there really is just one blue to black "run" down from the quad (Upper Curve/Chute/Vista/Face).  Pathetic.

Normally I wouldn't care.  Put a crappy product on the market and I won't buy it.  But CVR is on the Indy Pass now.  Anyone who bought an Indy Pass (like me) would have a reasonable expectation that the participating resorts would at least make a minimal effort to open terrain.

I'd appreciate any comments/insight as to why they aren't making snow and opening terrain.  It appears GM Steve Drumheller left and was replaced by Sam England, could this be a factor? skisoutheast.com

Here is an interesting press release from 2018 quoting Drumheller and claiming they doubled their snowmaking capacity. canaanresort.com

I plan on lodging my concerns with Doug Fish and/or Sam England, so thanks for any helpful background and comments.

 

They have several snowmaking ponds from which they draw water. I am not sure if mountain drainage/snowmelt feeds those ponds (assuming it does) but I have rarely heard of Canaan Valley running out of water for snowmaking. 

marzNC wrote:

What water supply does CV have?

Up until Massanutten installed a 2-mile long water pike from the valley and got permission to use more surface water, the issue when there was a cold snap that allowed 24-hour snowmaking for more than a couple days was running out of water.  Wintergreen has also had water issues in recent years when not enough base existed to get through a Jan or early Feb meltdown.

powday wrote:

They have several snowmaking ponds from which they draw water. I am not sure if mountain drainage/snowmelt feeds those ponds (assuming it does) but I have rarely heard of Canaan Valley running out of water for snowmaking. 

marzNC wrote:

What water supply does CV have?

Up until Massanutten installed a 2-mile long water pike from the valley and got permission to use more surface water, the issue when there was a cold snap that allowed 24-hour snowmaking for more than a couple days was running out of water.  Wintergreen has also had water issues in recent years when not enough base existed to get through a Jan or early Feb meltdown.

That’s because they would have to make snow to run out. 

It looks like Canaan Valley Resort is up to 39 open trails today (over 80% of skiable terrain), thanks to over half a foot of recent snow in the Valley.  CVR is reporting a mix of groomed and natural snow this morning with a base depth of 20-30 inches.

Conditions should be great at Timberline as well.  They're reporting 16/23 trails open (70%) today.