springs blew last 2 nights, wagner bowl and trails
Massanutten started snowmaking. The usual areas at the base and snow tubing are white. Piles of white on Upper Paradice, which leads to Ridgecrest (blue). My guess is that they are shooting to open around Dec. 8.
There is a webcam at the peak now. Also a weather station that's hooked into WeatherSTEM. Even has a Wet Bulb temperature.
this has the markings of the worst season Ive ever known, and I didnt think that was possible.
But let's see.
A few days ago and it looked like 7s could make snow for 5-6 days straight. Now they would be fools to do so in the next 2 days because here comes 50 degree temps and solid rain.
We need that typical west>east jetstream followed by cooler ocean temps off the west coast. Nothing else matters and this year we will likely get nailed with precipitation in water droplet form.
Looks like Laurel Mtn has fired up some fan guns
Grumpy dad wrote:
"this has the markings of the worst season Ive ever known, and I didnt think that was possible."
>It's not even winter yet or meteorological winter starting December 1st.
But let's see.
"We need that typical west>east jetstream followed by cooler ocean temps off the west coast. Nothing else matters and this year we will likely get nailed with precipitation in water droplet form."
>Well the typical west>east jet stream and cooler ocean temps isn't predicted to happen like you are wishing for. The jet is predicted to be slightly amplified in a strong El Niño year. What this typically means is warmer temps for the mid-Atlantic but more precipitation. Should the amplification become more pronounced with low pressure developing off the DelMarVa and some cold polar air coming into the lakes region we will be in store for the big snow storms dumping somewhere along the east coast.
Let's see what the month of December brings before throwing in the towel. The stormy seasons that produced 15'-20' of snow in the Appalachian Highlands of WV over the last 20 years had decent snowfall during the month. Those 2-3 day storms can produce a few feet of snow. Lower elevation resorts east of the Appalachians should get some of the big storms but could have a more difficult time holding on to their snow.
Grump - I think you are a bit premature with your dire assessment. All of the commonly used weather models are converging on a cold pattern for December........the GFS model is shown below (note- blue is cold):
Looking around at webcams last night, snowmaking was in progress all over NC, VA, WV, and PA. Should be the same tonight, which is supposed to be even colder.
Massanutten seems to have had an inversion so the snowmaking was all at the base, with no snowguns on at the peak. The new WeatherSTEM weather station and webcam at the top is very cool.
Chad wrote:
Looks like Sugar Mountain will open today (Tuesday). Beech opening is scheduled for Saturday
App has Thursday, Nov. 30 as their opening day. Cataloochee hasn't announced anything about the ski slopes yet. Cat tubing opens on Dec. 2.
SeniorSki wrote:
Looks like Sugar beat everyone, they are skiing today, wow what a shot I’m the arm for this coming season. Maybe the earliest ever opening? Everyone else is blowing today. Seems like a solid 2 weeks of cold weather to continue blowing. A few rain/slash snow chances but for the most part a great beginning. Everyone will be open before Christmas, woop!Perfect timing I just bought my first pair of skis in 20 years, going to give it a go. Looking to start at Canaan, the best deal for seniors. Always loved that place in the 70’s, yes I’m that old 😁. However it was only good with a good natural snow cover. They would benefit greatly from the Great Lakes. Seems like the NW flow will be setting up for awhile. They have a nice coating already.I’m going all in for the positive winter season. This will be the best season in a long time! Very consistent cold weather is predicted. Hopefully we will stay away from those dreaded mid winter thaws. ❄️☃️
Pretty sure there have been times when App and/or Sugar has opened earlier. App announced a few days ago they would open on Nov. 30. Typically that means Sugar tries very, very hard to open before that. Sugar always goes for a bit of a surprise opening. Have been times when Sugar only opened for a few hours the afternoon before App opened. They are 19 miles apart.
SeniorSki wrote:
Just checked out their cams, they are skiing from the top, that is impressive!
You mean Sugar? The main base lift goes to the summit. So they always have one route top-to-bottom when they open. The difference between now and when I skied there around 2006 is that the main lift is a high-speed chondola (no gondolas in use yet). The old lift was a slow, slow double. Sugar holds a weekend event called SugarFest that's usually the second weekend of December. It includes a free demo day with quite a few brand tents. Would be hard to demo without being able to take run from the top.
Cataloochee just announced the ski slopes will open tomorrow, Nov. 29.
So by the weekend Dec. 2-3, Sugar, Cat, App, and Beech will all be open for NC skiing.
marzNC wrote:
Cataloochee just announced the ski slopes will open tomorrow, Nov. 29.
So by the weekend Dec. 2-3, Sugar, Cat, App, and Beech will all be open for NC skiing.
So, four North Carolina ski areas expected to be open on or before this coming weekend - December 2-3. That's great news, marzNC!
I checked my old notes and found that I'd skied twice in the Mid-Atlantic in November 2014: November 22 at Bryce VA (their opening day), and then November 28 at Sugar NC (they'd been open for a few days already iirc).
Woody
Whitetail is blowing snow right now. Just caught a snowmaker on their web cam.
Diggin' the Redman poetry. See ya soon!
With Blue Knob's mini-opening, I'm wondering if (smart) resorts are starting to open any day they can early season? And just close if gets warm for a while. Certainly surprising to see all the Snowtime and Somerset areas blowing. At this point, they aren't "testing"
This is their latest opening in several years. We were there before Thanksgiving in both 2021 and 2022. The great thing about the NC resorts is that they often only need one night of snow-blowing to get runs open. For whatever reason they aren't so picky about coverage or number of runs. They just drop the ropes and go. The slopes at Sugar were bare Monday morning. By Tuesday morning they are sliding.
SeniorSki wrote:
Looks like Sugar beat everyone, they are skiing today, wow what a shot I’m the arm for this coming season. Maybe the earliest ever opening? Everyone else is blowing today. Seems like a solid 2 weeks of cold weather to continue blowing. A few rain/slash snow chances but for the most part a great beginning. Everyone will be open before Christmas, woop!Perfect timing I just bought my first pair of skis in 20 years, going to give it a go. Looking to start at Canaan, the best deal for seniors. Always loved that place in the 70’s, yes I’m that old 😁. However it was only good with a good natural snow cover. They would benefit greatly from the Great Lakes. Seems like the NW flow will be setting up for awhile. They have a nice coating already.I’m going all in for the positive winter season. This will be the best season in a long time! Very consistent cold weather is predicted. Hopefully we will stay away from those dreaded mid winter thaws. ❄️☃️
Bryce continues to beat or tie all other local resorts for opening first and closing late, really impressive the effort they put into getting open and staying open. Just hope the backside expansion I saw something about happens next year as it would be great to have some more trails there even if short ones to add some variety.
skijw wrote:
Bryce opens Saturday 12/2.
snapdragon wrote:
the line opened to the top after 68 hours of continuous dreamflake production...then they groomed for 50 hours...now they can bring everything back up to specs with this short shot of free natural and cold temps...the pros make it good for the bros...yew!
Uhhhhh 😐 sorry Snapster, but I have no idea which ski area you’re referring to. Would you mind clarifying?
Woody
the line = Timberline in snapdragonese :-)
bousquet19 wrote:
snapdragon wrote:
the line opened to the top after 68 hours of continuous dreamflake production...then they groomed for 50 hours...now they can bring everything back up to specs with this short shot of free natural and cold temps...the pros make it good for the bros...yew!Uhhhhh 😐 sorry Snapster, but I have no idea which ski area you’re referring to. Would you mind clarifying?
Woody
JimK wrote:
the line = Timberline in snapdragonese :-)
bousquet19 wrote:
snapdragon wrote:
the line opened to the top after 68 hours of continuous dreamflake production...then they groomed for 50 hours...now they can bring everything back up to specs with this short shot of free natural and cold temps...the pros make it good for the bros...yew!Uhhhhh 😐 sorry Snapster, but I have no idea which ski area you’re referring to. Would you mind clarifying?
Woody
JimK,
Thanks bro. 😎
Woody
JimK wrote:
the line = Timberline in snapdragonese :-)
bousquet19 wrote:
snapdragon wrote:
the line opened to the top after 68 hours of continuous dreamflake production...then they groomed for 50 hours...now they can bring everything back up to specs with this short shot of free natural and cold temps...the pros make it good for the bros...yew!Uhhhhh 😐 sorry Snapster, but I have no idea which ski area you’re referring to. Would you mind clarifying?
Woody
JimK,
Thanks bro. 😎
Woody
should be a fine afternoon to ski today Red! suns out, guns off! WHy wait till Thursday?
snapdragon wrote:
canaan valley pulled in 6.5" of white after about an inch of wet...potomac highland dreamflakes are cranking out at 20 all over the line...third megasession starts on thu...see yew at the top!
Don't tell Timberline that! They were making whales yesterday afternoon still to open more stuff this weekend and still blasting the mountain right now! Sweet conditions and bluebird skies all week!!
HVdad wrote:
Big elephant in the room... turn the fan guns and compressors off, send the seasonal employees home, the mid-Atlantic forecast is dismal. Bowling anyone...?
Headed there Saturday, how does thunderstruck and twister look?
chaga wrote:
Don't tell Timberline that! They were making whales yesterday afternoon still to open more stuff this weekend and still blasting the mountain right now! Sweet conditions and bluebird skies all week!!
HVdad wrote:
Big elephant in the room... turn the fan guns and compressors off, send the seasonal employees home, the mid-Atlantic forecast is dismal. Bowling anyone...?
whales!
Patf1engineer wrote:
Headed there Saturday, how does thunderstruck and twister look?
chaga wrote:
Don't tell Timberline that! They were making whales yesterday afternoon still to open more stuff this weekend and still blasting the mountain right now! Sweet conditions and bluebird skies all week!!
HVdad wrote:
Big elephant in the room... turn the fan guns and compressors off, send the seasonal employees home, the mid-Atlantic forecast is dismal. Bowling anyone...?
whales!
Patf1engineer wrote:
Headed there Saturday, how does thunderstruck and twister look?
chaga wrote:
Don't tell Timberline that! They were making whales yesterday afternoon still to open more stuff this weekend and still blasting the mountain right now! Sweet conditions and bluebird skies all week!!
HVdad wrote:
Big elephant in the room... turn the fan guns and compressors off, send the seasonal employees home, the mid-Atlantic forecast is dismal. Bowling anyone...?
I was really hoping I was wrong here @snowsmith. SMH. UGH.
I literally walked outside to clean dog poo off the lawn with my scooper, and kicked the pool heater a bit in frustration of the lack of snow, as I walked around today with shorts and a t-shirt not very far from 7Springs.
SIIIIIIGH
CAN I PLEASE see snow again, please.
snowsmith wrote:
Grump - I think you are a bit premature with your dire assessment. All of the commonly used weather models are converging on a cold pattern for December........the GFS model is shown below (note- blue is cold):
Here you go Grump. How about 6"?
Grumpy dad wrote:
I was really hoping I was wrong here @snowsmith. SMH. UGH.
I literally walked outside to clean dog poo off the lawn with my scooper, and kicked the pool heater a bit in frustration of the lack of snow, as I walked around today with shorts and a t-shirt not very far from 7Springs.
SIIIIIIGH
CAN I PLEASE see snow again, please.snowsmith wrote:
Grump - I think you are a bit premature with your dire assessment. All of the commonly used weather models are converging on a cold pattern for December........the GFS model is shown below (note- blue is cold):
Fearless forecast for the Canaan Valley area:
https://whitegrass.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/Fealess-Forecast-Dec-17.txt
Why haven't more more Mid-Atlantic areas adopted the Midwest areas philosophy of high snowmaking coverage per acre. Southeast areas are using it. Timberline has shown it definitely works.
To use JF as example, the fan guns terrain is what is open there, but the base depth on beginner terrain is about a foot maybe less. Intermediate had a deeper base. I was riding the lifts above Exhibition and Lehigh trails. The spacing between hydrants was about 50 or more feet, no fan guns. Both trails are wide which requires alot gun movement.
Now install the Midwest philosophy, increase the water lines to handle more capacity on each trail. Space the hydrants 12 to 15 feet aparts. Alternate the guns as tower mount E-Guns with on board compressers, so they cover the right side. Between the two tower guns is ground E-Gun (using the existing air line, no increase in capacity) move to the middle of the trail to cover the farside of the trail for early season coverage and quicker opening. When open you have edge to edge to handle more traffic.
The current ground guns and some tower guns are old air hog guns. By doing the switch, the window is reduced on covering the trail. The lesser known Midwest areas are showing they can survive and make money this way.
Looks like good time to continue to make snow with 8" to 15" natural incoming!
Midwest weather patterns and the mid-Atlantic are different. Probably not the only reason that snowmaking approaches are different but a factor.
I saw snowguns firing at Vail today and Beaver Creek yesterday. The spacing and approach seemed noticeably different than the southeast. The two areas that get a lot of snowmaking attention are the greens/blues that lead down to the main base and the terrain parks. The greens with stick guns are cat tracks that need snow in order to make sure beginners and tired intermediates can make it down during early season.
I'm heading to northern Michigan in January so paying a bit more attention to early season snowmaking efforts. The warm weather in November delayed opening dates for several sub-regions of the midwest.
The Midwest meteorologist for OpenSnow posted a beta version of graphs for snowmaking conditions a few times. The graphs are color-coded for wet-bulb conditions.
9" pow this morning in canaan! guns are blazing till tommorrow most likely. still windy with some snow. low viz along ridges.
Wednesday should be an epic bluebird day!!, you know what to do!
it was a good day! Suns out now.... BLUEBIRD! YEW!
I was at Timberline yesterday. Wind was playing havoc on the 6 pack. Additionally it was cold, snowy and crowded. Honestly, there wasn't a need to run the snow guns during the day, after each run I had to take my hand out of my mittens and melt the hard pack of ice on my goggles!
None the less, it was better than being at work! I am sure today set up to be a great day! Enjoy the snow!!!
the need to run the guns every day you can is self evident in the mid atlantic winters now.. Its surely not super fun skiing when they are on, but unless you wanna ski on a half open resort with mediocre skiing all year, its what it takes :) they will probably be 100% open by this weekend!
(if you go early season and there is a stretch of snowmaking temps, expect them to be on 24/7 its not really worth it turning them on for less than 24 hours)
Timothy.grasso wrote:
I was at Timberline yesterday. Wind was playing havoc on the 6 pack. Additionally it was cold, snowy and crowded. Honestly, there wasn't a need to run the snow guns during the day, after each run I had to take my hand out of my mittens and melt the hard pack of ice on my goggles!
None the less, it was better than being at work! I am sure today set up to be a great day! Enjoy the snow!!!
Whitetail had at least two snowcats working all through the night, flattening out the whales and prepping the slopes. Looks like they're making a push to open in the next few days, although no official opening date yet. Snowmaking fired up sometime overnight although temperatures weren't much below freezing.
When it comes down to guns I don't think there's all that much technological magic. The equation for making snow is pretty simple: the right dew point, chilled water, and cooled compressed air. You can achieve those variables with old-school or new-fangled technology, but the dew point is going to be the driving factor. Even if you invested a ton of money and technology to produce snow at a higher temperature, that snow would immediately melt as it enters the air. So fundamentally, the technology of snowmaking hasn't changed all that much in many decades.
Now, newer snowmaking systems operate much more efficiently and are computer-controlled. They're able to make snow with less electricity. Whitetail and Liberty both have modern TechnoAlpin automated guns, which are among the best in the industry. Weather stations across the mountain allow the individual variables of each gun to be automatically adjusted for optimum efficiency, which might look different at the top of the mountain vs. the bottom. By controlling the entire system from a computer screen, it's much easier for resorts to efficiently and quickly make snow.
TechnoAlpin isn't the only player in the business, but many Mid-Atlantic resorts have invested millions and millions of dollars in TechnoAlpin equipment over the past decade.
Here's a Whitetail-provided photo of a TechnoAlpin gun in action.
Techno claims the "Polar" is the best gun for higer temps - if true I'm interested to know if Liberty/Whitetail bought any!
Wet bulb temps at Whitetail look OK starting on Sunday and very good Monday until????
lets go wet bulb!
