I wanted to head out to Snowshoe with my trusted dog, but the resort doesnt allow pets. Does anyone have any suggestions of places in the area or other nearby ski areas that allow pets?

You hit on a pet-peeve (no pun intended) of mine - dog unfriendly areas. Seems that NO one allows dogs ANYWHERE these days. Your best bet may be to find an area that's located in a remote location or near a state/federal park where dogs are allowed. Then find a hotel or motel that allows pets. I understand all the Comfort Inns will allow dogs (call individual hotels first to confirm). Some ski areas that may fit the bill are Timberline or Canaan Valley. While I am pretty sure that both resorts do not allow dogs, there are hotels nearby that may allow your dog and parklands nearby where you could go romp with your pooch. Good luck and let me know how it works out.

A fellow dog lover/skier.

Your email touched on two points on which I have strong feelings.

First, I agree there is a dearth of dog-friendly places around. I am a dog owner and both empathize and sympathize with your predicament. There are several places in Canaan Valley. Try Canaan Valley Realty. They have a catalog with a small number of houses that are pet friendly. But these are rented well in advance.

However, the reason for the dwindling number of pet friendly areas is abuse by unreasonable renters who leave early in the AM and return late in the PM to a soiled or ripped carpet and a hungry pet. In most of the ski areas nearby, as well as virtually everywhere, most of the real estate is in private individual hands. As a condo owner (although not in a ski area) I can understand the plight of the owner who can or has to rent out his/her condo. Holiday Inn can change their carpets at will, I can't unless I spend money well above my budget and for which the damage deposit wouldn't even make a dent. This has happened to me already. And besides, I am virulently allergic to cats.

My solution in my case has been to buy a condo (Snowshoe) where I can bring my dog as a homeowner. But as much as I sympathize with other dog owner's plight, I am reticent to open this one to pets when it comes time to rent it out. Having been "burned" once, I am not interested in spending several hundred dollars repairing someone else's enjoyment. I realize not everyone is uncivil nor careless when it comes to their pets, but in this case, one bad apple can undo it for the rest.

Ibotta,

Have you thought about increasing the amount of the refundable deposit to cover pet damage? Maybe requiring a check to cover the worst case scenario that you wouldn't cash until verification of condition of the condo? Alternatively, you can add a stipulation in the renters contract that the renter is liable for all damages with attorney's fees and other costs of collection to be borne by the renter. I assume most renters would give you legit names and addresses, especially if they are using a credit card. There are also other ways to check out responsible dog owners - stipulate that the dog be crate trained and crated when the owner is not present. Ask questions like "What activities do you plan with your pet?" "Have you gone on your vacation with your pet before?" "What does your pet do while you ski?" "Is there someone who stays with the dog?" Etc. etc. While I sympathize with your plight, you're prejudice against other dog owners because of one irresponsible clod makes the situation just as bad as the irresponsible dog owner. As for the cat allergies (I have them also - asthma is one symptom), just ban cats for health reasons.

Just my two cents.

ps: you are, of course, free to do whatever you wish with your own property. I just wanted to give you an alternative point of view.

Jim you make some arguments that sound good, and although I'm a fellow dog lover,I'm afraid lbotta's points are right on. In today's world, even if you make people sign all of that stuff, if their check bounces or something else goes wrong, its a very hard and expensive process to get your money, if you ever get it.

Besides, most people ski all day and go out in the evenings, what's the point of having your dog with you anyway. Leave it with a friend (or have them dog-sit for you at home). It will enjoy that better than being couped up in a cage to and from the resort and being left alone in strange surroundings.

Its unfortunate that a few people have ruined it for the rest of us, but don't blame people who have invested a lot of money in their property from trying to keep it nice.

Pachyderm1 - I agree. People that bring there dogs on vacation only to have them pent up all day are not doing their pets any favors. When my wife and I go skiing, our two dogs stay home with a pet sitter - much more fun for them. When we do take trips with our dogs, the boys go out when we go out - romps on the beach, walks in the woods. Dinner is take out or cook in. So if we went on a ski trip, they would come along only if we were cross country skiing and they could join in the activities.

My point to Ibotta was not only to get some assurances (i.e., contract, credit card, check, etc.) but to query the owner about what his/her plans are in a general sense so as to find out if the dog would stay in all day or go out with the owner. Crates also demonstrate responsible ownership and concern for the property of others. Of course, as I noted in the post script, Ibotta is very free to protect his investment any way he sees fit and I most certainly didn't mean to state or imply that the lack of dog-friendly places was his fault. I just wanted to provide him (and other list readers) with another perspective.

Jim, the reason that I am purchasing a condo in the mountains, in a ski area, is simply to de-complicate my life. I am not interested in the rental profits. I have to rent it for a time, but on the long run, I want to live joyfully and to be able to go there with my family and friends, and my precious dog, and relax. I do have the greatest sympathy for other dog owners. If I know the person, and the animal, I would be more than amenable to allow them the use of my property. But being as it is that the purpose of the property ownership is to decomplicate my life, I am not interested in getting into additional complications nor becoming a guinea pig for the American Trial Lawyers Association's latest foray into expanding the civil liabilities field.

I am not prejudiced against dog owners. I am one myself. But being on both sides of the fence, I feel firsthand the anger of having to spend a couple of grand (I just did) on carpet replacement. Not every dog owner is a slob - as a matter of fact, very few of the dog owners whom I know are slobs. But I can't take a gamble. I admire the folks at Canaan and Timberline who do allow pets in their homes, because there is no way to police the vacationers, save posting a guard to watch out for cats or ensuring the dog doesn't come into the house with muddy feet and then lays over the new berber rug. As for ensuring the pooch is kennel trained -- really, stipulations are not worth much when one talks about vacationers that will be in the house for the weekend.

When (and if) I buy my second property in the mountains, hopefully right next to mine, and for investment, I would be in the position of policing the weekend tenants in a way that it would allow me to allow dogs.

Lou

[This message has been edited by lbotta (edited 12-01-1999).]

I too am a dog lover & own a place at Snowshoe. When I ski I make sure I get up early enough so he gets a good 1/2 hr. hike in the a.m., another at lunch and don't ski past 2pm so we can have fun (Hiking or snowshoeing in the pm). That way he gets lots of exercise and I do too- guilt free. He also hooks up with other dogs & gets exercise that way. I would rent to others w/ a dog but only if I knew them. Having a condo inspection before departure is a good idea but the rental companies are so busy in season that's hard to do. It's a tough issue!

It is nice to know there are other dog owners at the Shoe. The place I just bought is at Summit, and there seemed to be several dog owners there. Do you know of any areas where the pooches can run unleashed for exercise? The real estate agent also told me that there were bears around, so that is also a safery consideration for me -- or is it exagerated on the part of the real estate agent?

Don't worry about the bears. Most will be settling down for a long winters nap. Even if they are roaming about, your chances of encountering one are slim and the bears would prefer to leave you alone unless you are threatening their cubs.

Ibotta- go behind snowcrest-plenty of pooch room to run-this connects to the new trail to the sunset cabin-also around redgate rd. & a "secret" trail in the woods. I've never had a problem w/ bears- your dog would probably bark-yea, you wouldn't want to mess with mom & cubs but they don't want any part of you! Also, lots of room to roam around Silvercreek- this is dog heaven.

Ibotta- go behind snowcrest-plenty of pooch room to run-this connects to the new trail to the sunset cabin-also around redgate rd. & a "secret" trail in the woods. I've never had a problem w/ bears- your dog would probably bark-yea, you wouldn't want to mess with mom & cubs but they don't want any part of you! Also, lots of room to roam around Silvercreek- this is dog heaven.

Any names of hotels/motels in ski areas where I can take my dog?

Well.... I have owned my condo at Snowshoe for the better part of the year. I am thinking about allowing persons with dogs, dogs only, and only dogs -- no cats, rent the premises during the winter. Actually, some of the comments made here may have changed my mind a bit. My only concern is: How do I ensure that owners bring kennel trained dogs that do not climb on the furniture? I also just purchased new living room furniture. Comments are appreciated.

Lou

Keep your DOGS at home . I go to SKI not SKI THROUGH DOG CRAP , and yes I have dog's and they are in kennels and are walked and taken care of . BUTT it's these other IDIOTS that walk their dogs at 5 in the morning and let them dump in my yard that really PISS ME OFF, and yes there are responcable dog owners BUTT there is a whole lot that don't give a RATS BUTT so put fido in a kennel at home and quit ruinning my day

Gee, you sound like a really civil person.... Montana Militia or the Confederate Warriors?

As long as people are responsible (note, responsible is spelled with an "S"), I don't care if they bring their pet, play with it or live with it. Responsibility includes keeping the dog on a leash as well as picking up after him/her. As a matter of fact, my desire to have my pet accompany me on my vacations IS the only reason why I bought my condo at Snowshoe. I spend time with him and yes, after the slopes close, I bring him out to play, and yes, I pick up after him.

If that "pisses you off" or "ruins your day", you have a lot to learn (besides spelling) about living in an community, civility and general manners. You may also go ahead and purchase your own property and keep away anyone you choose.

Actually, your statements make me more inclined to allow pets in MY property.

B-Man may not be eloquent but I share his sentiment. My last vacation was spoiled by someone letting out their dog to pee every morning at 6am. The dog would then frolic for awhile and bark to get the owner to let them back in. (Same thing again late in the evening, sigh.)

You may say "oh, just another irresponsible owner". But there are just too many such people in our society.

My conclusion is the exact opposite of yours, Ibotta. Responsible dog owners that want to take their dog with them should either buy their own place or pay the extra bucks to rent where dogs are allowed.

I'm not being harsh. One of my buddies runs a dog-friendly B&B. It works out really well because he's there all day - so he's aware of the dogs activities all the time and the pooches aren't left locked in a room or crate the whole day.

Hey Ibotta don't get your pantys in a wad. So I flunked english and never won a spelling bee,whats your problem you have a condo and I bet your real cute running around after fido with your little poopey skooper,And it does seem a little hypocritical on your part not to allow cats at your condo. So smile and drink more beer .(can't we all just get along ) :-)

Certainly, Mr. B -- I would say I probably look as funny to you chasing my trusted pet with a pooper scooper, as you probably look funny to me watching you change the wheels in your house and throwing the Schlitz bottles out the window. And by the way -- What do you do with your pets? You said before you kept them caged? Tsk tsk tsk.

The reason why I will not allow cats in my condo is because I'm severely allergic to them. So if that's hypocrisy to you, at least I'll live comfortably.

We do agree on drinking beer. I would even buy you a Guinness -- if you knew what it was.

Well, I think we all feel better about our pets. Does anybody have any secret MT. Bike trails they would like to share? Has anybody done the downhill at Snowshoe? What's it like? I just bought a Schwin Mesa GS (semi-rigid)bike, any thoughts on Schwin products.

Well I just got back in from scrapping the latest roadkill off the hwy, and hey Ibotta there's enough for both of us and I am certainly willing to share,just fry it up and YUM YUM,add a cold corona a lime and life just don't get any better.BY THE WAY I CHANGED THE TIRES ON MY HOUSE LAST YEAR .And I thought Guinness did the record thing .Well I think I'll go out back to the fishing whole (atlantic ocean) and warm up the bertram and go catch some king mac's and WaHOO, Later

B-MAN THIS IS HOW YOU SPELL PANTIES

Lou,

Haven't been on the board since the end of ski season, but saw your posts. While there are no guarantees with regards to dealing with the public in general (as b-man has so eloquently demonstrated), may I respectfully offer some suggestions for improving your chances of getting responsible pet owners in as clients for the use of your condo:

1. Ask for an additional pet damage deposit that is fully refundable upon your review of the condo after the stay (requires you or someone you trust to visit the condo immediately after a visitor with a pet stays).

2. Interview prospective customers to get a feel for what they are like as people and ask questions like:
- why do you want to bring your dog(s)?
- what do you plan to do with your dog(s) while you are away?
- how old is the dog(s)? [puppies are less apt to be fully housebroken and their owners less experienced].
- will you be bringing your dogs' crate? [demonstrating responsible ownership and crate training].
Responsible owners shouldn't mind answering questions.

3. Place weight/size restrictions on dogs allowed in your condo (i.e., no dogs over 100 pounds - smaller dogs generally have the potential to do less damage).

4. Provide each renter with a list of rules regarding off-limits areas for the dog or other general rules/guidelines you'd like followed (i.e., poop scooping).

5. Make sure you have a renter's contract specifying that the owner is responsible for any and all damages (direct or indirect) caused by the dogs (other than normal wear and tear, of course).

I think what you're doing is great. My wife and I will be going down to the outer banks with our dogs this fall and plan on staying at a friend's place. We will bring the dogs' crates to calm them and give them a familiar "home" away from home. I love the idea that there are condo owners out in ski country willing to extend courtesies to responsible dog owners. BTW, I would not mind abiding by any of the guidelines I set above myself.

Good luck.

C-Man - you can have renters accept all damages but that doesn't mean much if you get sued. I work with dog owners on a regular basis in a quasi-judicial capacity and I've seen too many law suits (and countersuits) where other people are dragged in such as the rental owners or condo associations or whatever. Because of this I'd never rent to a dog owner. It's just too risky.

In doing a search for a rental condo at Snowshoe, I happened upon this discussion. We would love to bring our Aussie along on a ski trip at Christmas time, but appreciate owners' concerns (we've stayed at dog-friendly places that clearly show the wear and tear from previous tenants). I'm the non-skier in the family and would love to take long dog walks in the snow while everyone else is on the slopes. At any rate, I'm looking for leads on Snowshoe condos for rent, with or without our dog. Any leads? Thanks!

Try www.traveldog.com or www.petswelcome.com. Not sure if they have ski areas listed. I was able to find a nice house for rent in the Outer Banks for my wife, two dogs and myself. The realtor even told me that they prefer people with dogs over children. In their experience, dog owners tended to be more responsible about cleaning up after their dogs and making sure the place wasn't trashed.

Good luck.

Another rental agency that deals with Snowshoe is Old Spruce Realty, check them out at http://www.oldsprucerealty.com/index.html
They have a much more personal touch than the "processing line" approach of the Snowshoe rental system and they do have some places that take dogs.

I OWN A CONDO AT SNOWSHOE RESORT AND I OWN A GREAT DOG !! I OFFER MY CONDO FOR RENT AS LONG AS A PET DEPOSIT IS PAID TO COVER ANY DAMAGE ( FULLY REFUNDABLE ) LET ME KNOW IF YOU WANT INFO ON OUR CONDO AT SNOW SHOE WV...SLEEPS SEVEN ...2 BEDROOM 1 1/2 BATH FULLY EQUIPT...SPRIAL STAIR CASE TO UPPER LEVEL..SKI IN AND OUT OR BUS SERVICE 25 YARDS FROM FRONT DOOR EMAIL TO SHOWTIMEMUSIC@AOL.COM

Harry - I'd be interested. Tried emailing to you but AOL kicked it back. I can be reached at yzfrider@hotmail.com.

Lou - If you still rent out your place, I'd be interested in discussing options with you as well. My wife and I are hoping for early snow so we can do a thanksgiving trip with the two dogs.

Jim

Jim, you may reach me at lbotta@mindspring.com and we'll converse more. Lou

Lou,

Tried to email you but haven't heard back. Still interested in discussing rates, dates and details for your condo in Snowshoe. Please email me at yzfrider@hotmail.com.

Thanks - Jim

I am looking for a place that is reasonably affordable for a long ski weekend that would allow dogs (pet deposit of course no problem, but they are very well behaved indoor dogs) We will need three sleeping areas and otherwise we are pretty flexable!!

Any advice or hints would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much.

Kim
kkellmel@hunton.com