Well it could not be more confusing the way the web page is structured but if I read it right a saturday is $92 dollars for 8am-9pm; or $78 for 12:30 to 9pm, there is no 8-4:30 option as far as I can tell.
http://www.timberlineresort.com/tickets.php
This is a steep increase for sure from years past -- there are fortunately some good multi-day rates... but still $92? Really?
kemperski wrote:
Well it could not be more confusing the way the web page is structured but if I read it right a saturday is $92 dollars for 8am-9pm; or $78 for 12:30 to 9pm, there is no 8-4:30 option as far as I can tell.
http://www.timberlineresort.com/tickets.php
This is a steep increase for sure from years past -- there are fortunately some good multi-day rates... but still $92? Really?
Please don’t bash Timberline. ;) Speak truth to powder is showing above my response...
Unless the weather really cooperates this year, TimberLine will more than likely have the highest price per open terrain of anywhere in the US.
They also really cut down their military discount deals this year... $83 for a Saturday ticket with a military ID, $25 with a College ID.
I still say they probably just looked at their expected costs and divided it by average walk up ticket window purchaes past couple seaons and got $90 bucks per ticket to cover the epected costs and margin. Not a lot of value analysis done beyond that. We need X dollars to stay open and we expect y people to show up with money.. We have to charge them each 90 bucks to cover those costs..
crgildart wrote:
X×Y=costs using $90 bucks as X is Faulty thinking and formula wont work...lower X and you get a higher Y...I still say they probably just looked at their expected costs and divided it by average walk up ticket window purchaes past couple seaons and got $90 bucks per ticket to cover the epected costs and margin. Not a lot of value analysis done beyond that. We need X dollars to stay open and we expect y people to show up with money.. We have to charge them each 90 bucks to cover those costs..
Yikes. A Junior ticket is $72 on weekends and holidays.
Weekday ticket prices have skyrocketed as well. Adult = $72 and a Juniors = $52.
That's a lot of money for the Salamander and While Lightning. But it is the highest average vert south of Vermont. Just try not to look at the data set.
fishnski wrote:
crgildart wrote:
I still say they probably just looked at their expected costs and divided it by average walk up ticket window purchaes past couple seaons and got $90 bucks per ticket to cover the epected costs and margin. Not a lot of value analysis done beyond that. We need X dollars to stay open and we expect y people to show up with money.. We have to charge them each 90 bucks to cover those costs..
X×Y=costs using $90 bucks as X is Faulty thinking and formula wont work...lower X and you get a higher Y...
Exactly... they think demand is flatter than it actually is. They think number of tickets purchased is less variable on price than it actually is... especially as of late..
It seems they're pushing the deal at the 2-day ticket. True, the page is confusing as heck, but if I read it correct, here's some Adult samples:
..all those a two-day ticket. Plus you can get a starred "Country Roads" weekend pass (non holiday) from Friday 4:30 until Sunday 4:30 for $139.
Note: The above may fully reflect my inability to read it correctly and it being the end of a workday.
I think you read it right and I think the country road thing really is a good deal, but to just ski on a saturday-- they have destroyed that, I would think thats an important market
Last night on Facebook they posted a video of snowmakers cranking out some snow, a beautiful sight
kemperski wrote:
I think you read it right and I think the country road thing really is a good deal, but to just ski on a saturday-- they have destroyed that, I would think thats an important market
For people mainly are interested in Saturday day trips, do they also want to ski on holiday weekends? If not, why not just get the Country Roads deal for $139 and not worry about the weekend day ticket price? Pays for itself in two Saturdays.
I would guess that day trippers have been to Timberline before. Does that make sense?
It will be interesting how it plays out. I would think there are significant numbers of people that like to X-Country Ski at Whitegrass for one day and Alpine Ski on the other. I would think the pricing scheme would push them to purchase the one day at Canaan. I would also speculate that within most groups there are some less avid skiers that may want to ski one day and shop or hike or just hang out on the other weekend day. Once again the pricing could very well push those to Canaan Valley. On the other hand, if people are price insensitive or really favor TLine (they like the more advance terrain or rent a house on the slope) they might spring for the $92 one day ticket. Given that Tline has two competitors in close proximity consumers will have lots of choices so it is a bit riskier than using this pricing scheme at a location where you have more of a captive audience like Snowshoe. We will see.
I would guess that day trippers have been to Timberline before. Does that make sense?
In past seasons I have gotten out to timberline a couple Saturdays a year. The single day rate would definitely impact me.
Season passes are only $449. Only $249 with a military discount. That may make more sense if you have a few trips planned.
Based on the math alone, it appears that what they are trying to do is convince weekenders not to split their weekend between TL and CV (or TL and WG). $92 for one day, plus $38 for a second day, plus $9 more for Friday night. That's a clear attempt to "upsell" the second day (and third night). Works better when the one day price is competitive, but still that's what the pricing math implies.
They must believe that weekenders who split days between mountains are a significant market, and the bet they are making is that they will get enough "full weekend" business to offset the losses of weekenders who shift to CV/WG entirely and day trippers who go elsewhere. I am sceptical that that is a good bet, but curious what others think.
I'm sure their marketing department did an extensive analysis.
Norsk wrote:
Based on the math alone, it appears that what they are trying to do is convince weekenders not to split their weekend between TL and CV (or TL and WG). $92 for one day, plus $38 for a second day, plus $9 more for Friday night. That's a clear attempt to "upsell" the second day (and third night). Works better when the one day price is competitive, but still that's what the pricing math implies.
They must believe that weekenders who split days between mountains are a significant market, and the bet they are making is that they will get enough "full weekend" business to offset the losses of weekenders who shift to CV/WG entirely and day trippers who go elsewhere. I am sceptical that that is a good bet, but curious what others think.
I'd be surprised if any math was involved in their decision at all, but I was thinking the same thing about timberline trying to capture customers for the entire weekend. I just wonder if it isn't all just more about a bruised ego from their recent public failure to capture some of the revenue from the state park by trying to convince Canaan resort to make a joint ski pass. It was just 2 years ago the owners of Timberline were personally standing on the highway, on a Saturday in front of the canaan resort lodge entrance holding up hand made signs saying that timberline was open and canaan was closed.
Doc and the old lady routinely drive the beater Mercedes to the CVR parking lot to check on the size of the crowd. They never, ever wave back.
wgo wrote:
I would guess that day trippers have been to Timberline before. Does that make sense?
In past seasons I have gotten out to timberline a couple Saturdays a year. The single day rate would definitely impact me.
But you wouldn't spring for the $139 non-holiday weekend Country Pass? Do you remember what you paid before for the two Saturdays?
TomH wrote:
I'm sure their marketing department did an extensive analysis.
So much so they forgot to fix the web cam.
marzNC wrote:
wgo wrote:
I would guess that day trippers have been to Timberline before. Does that make sense?
In past seasons I have gotten out to timberline a couple Saturdays a year. The single day rate would definitely impact me.
But you wouldn't spring for the $139 non-holiday weekend Country Pass? Do you remember what you paid before for the two Saturdays?
Can the $139 pass be used on non-consecutive days? Sorry if I missed this. That makes more sense.
wgo wrote:
Can the $139 pass be used on non-consecutive days? Sorry if I missed this. That makes more sense.
Well, you are right. I was only reading the website graphic that says "Country Roads Weekend Pass, $139, Ski Friday 4:30pm - Sunday 4:30pm, Excludes Holiday Weekends." But this time I went into the booking webpage. You are correct, a Country Roads Weekend Pass is only for a specific weekend. That's quite different than a "pass" like the Mnut Special Value Pass that's good all season.
To buy a Country Roads Pass, you have to pick a specific Friday. Then it sells you a pass for that long weekend, starting at 4:30 on that date.
Dammit, good investigation, that makes the deal that I was giving them a break on more limited. Which sucks because I love the trees at Timberline. I'm confused about the strategy, $92 is too much.
kemperski wrote:
Dammit, good investigation, that makes the deal that I was giving them a break on more limited. Which sucks because I love the trees at Timberline. I'm confused about the strategy, $92 is too much.
Still say the only strategy is that's what they need to demand from the not so price sensitive tourists to pay their bills. After all the revenues from the regulars (folks who know about the multy day discounts) and passholders they'll need Y more dollars to pay the bills and have an acceptable return. Divide Y by the average number of walk up (oblivious) customers per season and you get $92. That's the only way i see them coming up with that number. Gotta wonder how much of their total revenues comes from walk up full price tickets each season.
something I have never talked about even when I have talked to the upper eschelon there is how much money they lose by there lifties doing a piss poor job of checking tickets, I ride the lift with people who brag about never buying a ticket because they know they will never be checked
By the way said people are usually rich little turds.
I've never mentioned it because even though they suck it still feels like being a rat.
There is no strategy, LOL. They are not skiers and they are not very good at business. They need inheritance to keep the place afloat. Too bad for those of us who ski there - until our passes run out.
I am a relative newby, with about a decade skiing the valley. The amount of day trippers has expanded greatly in the past couple of years, not just from DC. I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with this new pricing; since day trippers are a lot of the growth potential for revenue. Lodging nearby is fairly limited compared to other local spots. But, it is theirs to do with.
Not with a bang but a whimper.
crgildart wrote:
kemperski wrote:
Dammit, good investigation, that makes the deal that I was giving them a break on more limited. Which sucks because I love the trees at Timberline. I'm confused about the strategy, $92 is too much.
Still say the only strategy is that's what they need to demand from the not so price sensitive tourists to pay their bills. After all the revenues from the regulars (folks who know about the multy day discounts) and passholders they'll need Y more dollars to pay the bills and have an acceptable return. Divide Y by the average number of walk up (oblivious) customers per season and you get $92. That's the only way i see them coming up with that number. Gotta wonder how much of their total revenues comes from walk up full price tickets each season.
Maybe they're just trying to recoup money they've lost from not selling season passes for the past 2-3 years since they sold a 4-year season pass for like $400 a few years back. Seemed like a good idea at the time???
With my kids sports, the family can only ski one day on a weekend, so the two day pass doesn't benefit us at all. I also get the opportunity to ski during the week and $72 is way too much for a weekday. Looks like the family and I will be skiing and riding next door.
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