We bought Snowshoe Ridiculous Passes for next year and are considering buying a unit. We have mostly stayed in Silver Creek and that suits our family of four for various reasons so I'm leaning toward buying there if we do in fact make a purchase. Probably we would just pay cash to buy it with no mortgage and try to rent it out when we're not there to cover the costs, as I assume most people do.
Has anyone here actually done this? It's difficult to get a sense of how easy it would be to rent it out. The HOA fees seem steep at first blush but of course they cover ammenities like swimming pools, etc.
TIA
Since it might take a few days before the SS owners check in, here's a thread from a few years ago that may have some useful info. Just remember that the situation is always changing for any ski resort these days.
http://dcski.com/forum/83616
Several people active on this board own places, I'm sure they will offer good info. There seems to be somewhat of a strain in relations between Silvercreek and Snowshoe... Silver creek is dependent on policies of Snowshoe and their concerns are not properly addressed? I don't know the details but I'm sure someone else can fill them in.
I think I'm willing to also consider units in Mountain Lodge if anyone knows anything about that.
I stayed in the mountain lodge once. The HVAC left our condo around 80 degrees the whole weekend. Be weary of that.
Do all the units have baseboard heat there?
I would really consider the village. During the summer silver creek is pretty empty whereas the village has the events and dining. If you have never been there during the summer it may be worth a trip before buying. The midweek hours may vary, but weekends Memorial Day- Labor Day usually have a bunch to do.
Talk to the people at first tracts and get as much information from them as you need and then make your choices.
I own in Expedition station and love it, fee free to PM specific questions.
Thanks. I actually have been there in the summer and am leaning toward Mountain Lodge over SC now.
Keith,
I have 2 units at ML.
Pros: Location, onsite housekeeping and maint, free parking, low cost per sq ft, solid HOA financials.
Cons: Older bldg in dire need of some updates. An assessment is in our future that will be a significant #.
Rentals: These things rent like crazy. PM me if you are looking at a specific unit or want more info. I know of a few insiders that are looking to sell so you may be able to negotiate direct. Ironically, we have several insiders looking buy more.
Bottom line is that ML has some potential but we have to manage / get thru a rather substantial renovation.
Blue Don 1982 wrote:
Keith,
I have 2 units at ML.
Pros: Location, onsite housekeeping and maint, free parking, low cost per sq ft, solid HOA financials.
Cons: Older bldg in dire need of some updates. An assessment is in our future that will be a significant #.
Rentals: These things rent like crazy. PM me if you are looking at a specific unit or want more info. I know of a few insiders that are looking to sell so you may be able to negotiate direct. Ironically, we have several insiders looking buy more.
Bottom line is that ML has some potential but we have to manage / get thru a rather substantial renovation.
Thanks I will PM you soon.
Couple of years ago an acquaintance said he owned at Snowshoe, and all I remember is he complained that there were a lot of expensive assessments.
I would be curious how long it takes to break even (either pay off the mortgage or recoup the cash purchase). Then after that how much the "ongoing costs" usually are.
Mongo wrote:
Couple of years ago an acquaintance said he owned at Snowshoe, and all I remember is he complained that there were a lot of expensive assessments.
Obviously a big topic and concern at our ML HOA mtg on Sat. One guy said it best on Saturday. There are 2 types of assessments. The one you may have now and the one you are going to have later. These buildings are homes in harsh weather environments and things only last so long. Nothing lasts forever.
It's no different than our personal homes, stuff wears out and needs replaced. Prospective owners should know that going in. Instead, they are being told they are buying a piece of paradise. I call BS on that sales tactic. You are buying a 2nd home in a harsh climate and you will have to take care of it and repair it.
I would be curious how long it takes to break even (either pay off the mortgage or recoup the cash purchase). Then after that how much the "ongoing costs" usually are.
Break even would depend on a lot of factors. As for ongoing costs, that's easy. Think of every bill you pay at home that is directly related to your house - utilities, taxes, maintenance and then the dreaded assessment b/c the bldg is 20, 30 or 40 years old.
marzNC referenced this older thread above:
http://dcski.com/forum/83616
I wonder how unit purchase prices have changed since then? Does anybody know?
What have you found out?
Are you talking to realtors? although they have their own self interest I'm curious what they are saying.
kemperski wrote:
What have you found out?
Are you talking to realtors? although they have their own self interest I'm curious what they are saying.
I haven't reached any conclusions yet but the idea still has legs. Haven't had the time to contact a Realtor yet. I'm interested in knowing more about the RAD (Resort Area District) fees. It's no surprise that assessments are on the horizon at many of the areas - that's life in any community with an HOA, resort area or not. Members here have been very helpful and I am thankful for that. I've definitely punted on the idea of buying at Silver Creek (little or no off-season occupancy and just generally less desirable than the Village area) and will concentrate on the Village. Some of the units listed as for sale have been that way for over a year so I have to wonder what's up with those. The sellers are holding out for their desired price but seem unwilling to put any more work into the units(?) Sellers can be baffling in their behavior sometimes...
Keith_Moon wrote:
I wonder how unit purchase prices have changed since then? Does anybody know?
Pricing bottomed out in 2017. With the Alterra purchase, we are seeing an uptick in pricing. Certainly not a real estate boom but things are pointing in the right direction. At our HOA meeting last weekend, Michael Hughes from Remax / Old Spruce Properties provided a detailed analysis of recent sales. He noted that 2 properties in the village sold at asking price and one sold above. That is unheard of in the past 8 - 10 years.
I recommend dealing with Spencer Woody. He will find out your needs and steer you in the right direction. Every complex and HOA has it's pros and cons. You have to balance them out and make your choice. The market may have an uptick but you can sitll find some great deals.
I started looking this year too and prices seem to be heading a little north. There have been several sales recently and there is a developer/remodeler that seems to have purchased several units and flipping them. You can do a little deed searching Pocahontas county assessor's office website. It takes some time but it may be worth it.
I'm actually looking at a few tomorrow.
Lowest HOA in low 400's and that's a studio, most seem to be 500-600 for 1-2 bedroom with a few being as high as around 900. That's per month. Moutain assessment $500ish/yr or included in the HOA depending on the complex? (This is info from the sheets provided by the realtor)
Hope that helps
I looked on the county register of deeds web site and you can see past sales there but you don't even need to do that, because past sales are also noted on realtor.com for each unit. Some owners are attempting to sell their units for a lot less than what they paid for them.
My big issue is the looming spectre of upcoming assessments, which are definitely coming for some complexes.
From what I can see there IS a path to buying these units and coming out at least cash neutral but (no surprise here) the best deals are units that need A LOT of rennovation and/or are in Silver Creek (or both). We've stayed in SC and I like various things about it but it has higher fees and lower income potential because it opens later and closes earlier in the season. But units in the Village area are about $20K more than those in SC for a comparable unit.
So I'm still pondering my options but luckily there's no time pressure to act...
I'm curious if anyone has heard anything about assessments for any of the complexes going forward. Anything?
If the property you are interested in is a condominium ownership arrangement, it falls under Chapter 36B of the West Virginia Code. That requires the potential buyer be provided with something called a Resale Certificate. The Resale Certificate will show whether there are outstanding or pending assessments. Of course, it will only show assessments that have been officially approved by the Board, not assessments that are still being considered but not yet approved. You can also obtain meeting minutes of the Board where such discussions would (should) be documented.
Always important to get the Resale Certificate before actually committing to a purchase, in fact, should be considered a mandatory part of a buyer's due diligence.
Keith_Moon wrote:
I'm curious if anyone has heard anything about assessments for any of the complexes going forward. Anything?
Keith, I know you were considering Mtn Lodge. An assessment is on our horizon but nothing offcial yet. Ownership agrees on the need to reside the building but we can't agree on the scope of the project.
Don't know about West Virginia, but lots of states require HOAs to keep and update "capital plans" -- in Colorado that is a 10 year look into the future about what "expensive" things are expected to be needed and an estimate of the cost of those things as well as when the expenditure is to occur..
edit add: some people call it a reserve study
You might want to ask.
The West Virginia Code 36B Common Interest Ownership Act (the "Condominium Act") requires the Resale Certificate include capital plans for the current year and the next 2 fiscal years. In fact, the Resale Certificate requires much more as well.
yellowsnow wrote:
... include capital plans for the current year and the next 2 fiscal years.
What constitutes "a plan"? Innuendos, rumors, and talk? Or something actually presented to the HOA members, voted on, and passed? Like, there's "talk" about their own pool vs.for example, if at the last annual meeting they voted to do a $1.5 million renovastion next year and will send a pro-rated Special Assessment to each Owner at that time.
snow.buck wrote:
yellowsnow wrote:
... include capital plans for the current year and the next 2 fiscal years.
What constitutes "a plan"? Innuendos, rumors, and talk? Or something actually presented to the HOA members, voted on, and passed? Like, there's "talk" about their own pool vs.for example, if at the last annual meeting they voted to do a $1.5 million renovastion next year and will send a pro-rated Special Assessment to each Owner at that time.
When I was a condo board president, the plan was our best guess about what would need to be done, when it would need to be done, and included our best estmate about what the cost would be. In my case our condo declarations olny required an owner vote if the board wanted to change/improve something. When a replacement/repair was needed, no vote was required - regardless of cost. When the hot tub needed replacement, we did it. When we discovered radon, we remidiated. Neither of these required a vote. When we budgeted $250k to repaint the place, no vote was needed. $900k to reroof didn't require a vote. If you need a roof, you NEED a roof. When we budgeted $3.5 million to totally revamp the exterior of the buildings, We expalined how, what, and why, and had to sell the owners on our plan. Then there was a vote.
IMO condo boards should make judgments about what to do, and then sell the plan. Condo board members are elected to serve the interests of the owners. If they don't they get removed from office.
